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In this Trial Lawyer Nation podcast, Joshua Karton joins Michael for an introspective discussion on trial psychology and communication.
Joshua’s perspectives on turning off the “act” in a courtroom and getting back to just being (real) are deep and enlightening to listeners at all levels of the industry. The idea of “getting out of your own head” is turned upside down as Joshua challenges attorneys to embrace their role not as one there to protect themselves or their own ego, but rather as someone who is there to defend and protect their client and thereby connect with jurors who could see themselves in the position of the client one day and wanting the same protection.
Joshua shares what he believes allows people to trust through using everything you’ve got and not leaving anything in reserve. Joshua also breaks down the concept of not using negative objectives (such as not wanting to bore the jury, not wanting to piss off the judge, not wanting to embarrass yourself) that can’t be done, and instead of committing to objectives that are incompatible with the negative. Michael shares an application of this concept through the evolution of his own practice and how it’s propelled his success and allowed him to alleviate many of the stresses that tend to plague and follow most lawyers.
Joshua expounds on the power of goodness and how the recent political landscape has challenged this approach of connecting with jurors and how deep the need to be right has become a critical hurdle in the courtroom. Michael takes these ideas a step further by discussing how they have affected even the validity of eye witness testimony and the influences of psychodrama sessions. Self-awareness weaves its way throughout the podcast as the main theme that bolsters the success of attorneys in the right frame of mind and holds back others.
The episode concludes with a thoughtful discussion on the lens jurors see things through and how being aware of how you are setting yourself up to be perceived can change dramatically based on a single choice all attorneys have control over.
Background on Joshua Karton:
JOSHUA KARTON, president of Communication Arts, specializes in the application of the communication techniques of theatre/film/television to the art of trial advocacy. He serves on the faculties and develops curriculum for AAJ, the Gerry Spence Trial Lawyer’s College, NITA, the JAG Corps, ABA, NACDL, National Criminal Defense College, Loyola and California Western Schools of Law, state t.l.a.’s and criminal defense associations, as well as maintaining a professional practice of individual case consultation and witness preparation. Thirty years of work in this field culminated in his preparation of the winning oral argument to the United States Supreme Court in Hamdan v Rumsfeld, and the 2016 Lifetime Achievement Award for Excellence in Advocacy from Stetson University College of Law’s Center for Excellence in Advocacy. He co-authored Theater for Trial, released by Trial Guides November 1, 2017.
For more on Joshua Karton visit: https://www.trialguides.com/authors/joshua-karton/
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133 – Michael Neff – Navigating Premises Liability Cases: Insights from a Seasoned Trial Lawyer
Premises cases can be a tough way to make a living. “It’s challenging, like medical malpractice, but with the right experts, with the right research, with the right resilience, you can win these cases.”
On this episode of Trial Lawyer Nation, Michael Cowen speaks with Michael Neff, an experienced trial lawyer, about the oft-forgotten yet critically important and challenging area of tort law–premises liability law. He explains the kinds of cases that inflame his passions, how to succeed in premises liability law, and, of course, the importance of 7-inch stairs! Neff also briefly discusses his case against Snapchat, a cutting edge case he’s been working on outside of the premises liability realm.
Tune in for an in-depth discussion on premises liability law, insights on case selection, and how attorneys like Michael Neff work to secure sizable verdicts for clients with life-changing damages, ensuring the rules are followed.
Featured Guest
Name: Michael Neff
About: Michael is a trial lawyer with approximately 30 years of experience, who practices premises liability law, including ‘trip and fall’, ‘slip and fall’, negligent security, and much more. He is the founding partner of the Atlanta-based firm, Neff Injury Law, which has won over $100 million in jury verdicts for its clients. Outside of the courtroom, Michael is the author of Premises Liability: A Guide to Success and founder of the National Association of Premises Liability Attorneys (NAPLA).
Company: Neff Injury Law Connect: LinkedIn
Episode Highlights
[04:13] Defining premises cases: While slips and falls and trips and falls are the most basic of premises cases, premises liability also includes negligent security cases, water scald cases, Legionnaires cases, nursing home cases, and sexual assault cases.
[07:05] Winning premises liability cases: While Neff notes that trip and fall cases are generally easier cases to win, there are a number of questions that a premises liability attorney must have answered, including the condition of the property, whether there was a hazard, and whether it could have been mitigated or eliminated. At the end of the day, though, it’s all about ensuring folks are following the rules.
[09:38] Understanding the rules, including the building code: Neff explains the value of utilizing experts–including structural engineers, retired police officers, and others–to better understand and explain this practice area.
[12:20] Developing the theme of a case: In each case, there are always two sides of a story, but Neff explains that juries are simply not going to sympathize with a litigant who is making a lot of money and putting people in jeopardy.
[13:57] “Written in blood”: Neff recalls that an expert once told him that “the building code is written in blood.” Each of the rules that we are asking companies and individuals to follow was written as a result of someone having been killed or seriously injured, in order to prevent such a tragedy from happening again.
[15:32] Winning negligent security cases: Neff illustrates how the issues of foreseeability and preventability of an accident are key in negligent security cases, where juries might tend to want to assess total blame to the criminal who committed the offense, when the company could have taken steps to mitigate or eliminate the risk.
[17:26] Screening cases: While economic viability for both the attorney and the client is important, ultimately, Neff only selects cases that he feels passionate about. His clients’ lives have been irrevocably changed by the circumstances of the case, so he feels a great sense of responsibility to ensure their wellbeing.
[23:19] Securing large damages for clients: Neff asks, who holds the power of preventing these damages from occurring–an individual or a corporation? Because corporations bear that responsibility, his job is to delineate the steps they could have taken and the ordinary care they should have used to prevent this injury and to keep it from happening again.
[26:31] Excelling in premises liability law: In order to succeed in this practice area, Neff recommends investing in yourself, which may include joining organizations like his, the National Association of Premises Liability Attorneys (NAPLA).
[30:42] Suing Snapchat: Neff discusses a case he’s been litigating outside the premises liability realm in which a plaintiff is suing Snapchat over its speed filter, after being involved in a serious car wreck in which the other driver was using the app.
[38:21] Suing rideshare companies: Neff has also been litigating cases in which drivers for rideshare companies sexually assault their passengers. He explains that some of the challenges in these kinds of cases stem from the technological overlay and the fact that rideshare drivers are classified as independent contractors, not employees.
[42:54] NAPLA Updates: Neff shares that NAPLA just finished its first meeting in Chicago, which featured nineteen speakers over three days. Learn more about NAPLA at www.premisesliability.org
Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation
☑️ Follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram & LinkedIn.
☑️ Subscribe to Trial Lawyer Nation on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and YouTube.
In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.
Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.
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124 – Malorie Peacock – Why Focus Groups Matter and How To Make the Most of Them
Focus groups can be a pertinent tool for complicated cases to get a sense of how ordinary people think about a case.
Malorie J. Peacock, Partner at Cowen Rodriguez Peacock, uses focus groups to gain an outside perspective on her cases.
“Sometimes you get so wrapped up in the minutiae of your case or some technical details, or you’ve learned the case so well that you think it’s obvious to everybody else,” she explains. “Having that outside perspective is a way to get feedback to make sure you’re not just buying your own bullshit.”
Host Michael Cowen joins in on the discussion with Malorie who recently returned from hosting a focus group for one of her upcoming cases. They share what they’ve learned about focus groups, why you should consider using them in your own cases, how to facilitate them, what you gain from them, and most importantly, how to learn from them to inform your cases.
The episode provides examples of how to use both concept and adversarial focus groups to achieve your objectives, sharing real-life case studies that both Michael and Malorie have seen play out first-hand.
Featured Guest
Name: Malorie J. Peacock
About: Malorie J. Peacock is Partner at Cowen Rodriguez Peacock. She was born and raised in San Antonio, Texas, and received her JD from the University of Houston Law Center. During her time with Cowen Rodriguez Peacock, Malorie has worked on numerous commercial vehicle, trucking, and wrongful death cases. Malorie brings close attention to detail, commitment to finding safety issues and areas of neglect, continued utilization of technology and cutting-edge visuals in cases, along with a sincere passion to help those who have been hurt, to each and every case.
Firm: Cowen Rodriguez Peacock
Connect: LinkedIn
Episode Highlights
[02:18] Focus groups, defined: Malorie explains that a focus group is simply a group of people who are not associated with your case that allow you to test your strategy and get feedback.
[05:29] Different ways to test: There are many different ways to employ focus groups to add value to your case. Malorie advises the most important thing is knowing the purpose of the focus group.
[09:38] Bringing out your competitive nature: Michael talks about how adversarial focus groups can help lawyers rehearse for their cases ahead of time while channeling their competitive sides.
[13:41] Focus groups are not predictive of the numbers: Malorie reviews all the different variables that can change between a focus group and a court case that affect the numbers in the final outcome.
[15:21] Expect the unexpected: Michael speaks to how certain rulings from judges or specific facts being presented can have a big impact on how a case proceeds.
[21:18] Emotional attachments can get in the way: Michael points out that if you’re feeling emotional about a case and can’t run the focus group from a neutral perspective it might be better to hire a third party facilitator.
[24:35] How to find people to participate: Several different channels can be used to recruit people for focus groups.
[25:32] The right way to use Facebook ads: Michael provides an overview on how to properly use Facebook ads to recruit participants while maintaining neutrality in the process.
[35:10] To record or not to record?: Michael and Malorie debate how they prefer to record and document focus groups along with the benefits of each method.
[45:48] Choosing the right people to present: Malorie advises on how to balance the skills and likeability of two people if you’re holding an adversarial focus group to get good information.
[53:41] Big Rig Boot Camp: Michael reminds listeners that registration is open for the Big Rig Boot Camp on June 16th in San Antonio, TX.
Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation
☑️ Follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram & LinkedIn.
☑️ Subscribe to Trial Lawyer Nation on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and YouTube.
In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.
Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.
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112 – Krystal Cantu-Cuate – The Healing Journey: Facing Traumas and Truths
On this special episode of Trial Lawyer Nation, Michael welcomes his favorite client of all time, Krystal Cantu-Cuate. Like many clients, Michael was introduced to Krystal under difficult circumstances. Krystal was traveling a car that experienced a tire blowout. The blowout resulted in a tragic accident, and the amputation of Kyrstal’s right arm. As is often the case, this was only the beginning of a long and emotional journey.
When she first saw her family members gathered in the hospital waiting room, they were crying and expressing fear and apprehension about her future. In that moment, Krystal decided she was going to be strong for them and defy their fears and worries.
With the driving force to be strong for her family and take control of her situation, Krystal began working tirelessly to achieve and overcome. Within a month of her accident, Krystal was back in the gym resuming her CrossFit training.
Behind that incredible tenacity the world saw, a much darker story was playing out. Krystal wasn’t okay. The trauma was silently wearing on her. She admits she was in denial, repressing difficult thoughts, emotions, and feelings about the accident. And, because she was lacking the tools and knowledge to process the trauma she went through, inner struggle, pain, and repressed emotions became her normal. As litigation wore on, and maintaining the Superwoman exterior became more difficult, Krystal’s mental health challenges began to consume her.
While the journey has more bumps than Krystal was willing to admit to herself in the early years, this story has a happy ending. With Michael’s help, Krystal admitted to herself that is was okay not to be okay, made her mental health a priority, and sought out the support she needed to continue her healing journey.
Join us on this new episode of Trial Lawyer Nation for this emotional story of trauma, bravery, hard truths, and healing with guest Krystal Cantu-Cuate, an ex-CrossFit adaptive athlete and keynote speaker on mental health.
Featured Guest
Name: Krystal Cantu-Cuate
About: Krystal Cantu-Cuate is an ex-CrossFit adaptive athlete, keynote speaker on mental health, part-time bridal stylist, mother, and wife. After a tragic car accident in 2013 that resulted in the amputation of her right arm, Krystal went on to live her life in the face of adversity. Becoming one of the first competitive CrossFit adaptive athletes, Krystal traveled all over the US competing — and inspiring thousands while doing so. In 2016, she gave birth to her son, Joaquin, and left her competitive career. In 2021, Krystal was faced with her biggest challenge yet: mental health. After a traumatic experience with crippling anxiety, Krystal was faced with challenges that called for uncomfortable conversations. Krystal is now a keynote speaker on mental health and its importance. She continues using her own personal experiences to help others who may be struggling.
Connect: LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook
Key Points
Top takeaways from this episode
- It’s okay to ask for help. Asking for help doesn’t make you weak — it actually shows how strong you are. Whether you have a case in litigation or you’re fighting inner battles, it’s important to seek help. Lawyers and experts in the field can guide you through the litigation process and ease your worries. Close friends and family can give you the support needed to work through personal struggles. No matter your circumstance, always remember that you don’t have to go through it alone.
- A healing journey requires honesty and bravery. Healing is never easy, and it’s not a linear process. You have your ups, your downs, and everything in between. But what will get you through is honesty and bravery. You must be honest with yourself about where you are and what you need to start healing. Once you understand this, you need the courage to take on whatever challenge comes your way.
- Trust yourself. Nobody knows you better than yourself, although it’s easy to forget sometimes. In her darkest days, Krystal’s husband, Daniel, reminded her, “No matter what’s happening in your head right now, don’t forget — don’t forget who you are… Just trust yourself.” Trusting yourself and your strength can help keep you out of a downward spiral.
Episode Highlights
[02:06] The tragic story that changed everything: Krystal Cantu-Cuate shares the story of her car accident in 2013 that resulted in the amputation of her arm (and the beginning of her work with Michael Cowen).
[04:48] The litigation process: Krystal recounts what the litigation process was like, the harsh questions she faced in the deposition room, and what it was like dealing with foreign language and legalese documents.
[07:39] Knowing your strengths: Despite the severity of the situation, Krystal trusted in Michael, continued her CrossFit training as a form of therapy, and stuck to her strengths. What drove her to take on this superwoman persona?
[13:45] Dealing with the difficulties of the case: Krystal opens up about her fears of facing the memories during the witness preparation.
[16:18] Using CrossFit to push through: Krystal couldn’t fathom someone telling her she couldn’t do something — so she continued her CrossFit training. She doesn’t regret doing CrossFit because it kept her body healthy and her mind preoccupied.
[20:07] Struggling behind closed doors: Despite her fierce positivity, Krystal lost a lot of confidence in herself and faced a ton of anxiety after the accident.
[22:28] Finding a breakthrough: Krystal shares what finally led her to a breakthrough after a traumatic anxiety spiral. From suicidal thoughts to medication, Krystal faced a turning point that led to her healing journey.
[33:15] Using therapy in your healing journey: Michael and Krystal discuss their experiences seeing a therapist and why you have to be courageous to get honest. They also dive into the stigma of therapy and their thoughts on removing the stigma.
[35:31] The truth about intrusive thoughts: Krystal talks about naming her suicidal thoughts, telling her family about them, and why suicidal and intrusive thoughts are more common than you’d think.
[41:43] Not staying quiet: Instead of holding in her thoughts, feelings, and pain, Krystal speaks up. Whether it’s to her husband or therapist, Krystal shares what she’s feeling — despite how uncomfortable it can be.
[44:39] Receiving support: Krystal shares how her husband, Daniel, was an essential part of her healing.
[47:45] Krystal’s speaking initiatives: How is Krystal using her speaking to help others going through a similar situation? She’s sharing all of the details.
[51:08] Leading through tough situations: Krystal shares advice for attorneys on how to companion people through their difficult journeys.
Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation
☑️ Follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram & LinkedIn.
☑️ Subscribe to Trial Lawyer Nation on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube.
In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.
Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.
