115 – Malorie Peacock – How to Get Compelling Testimony From Treating Doctors

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Before opening his own firm after graduating from law school in 2018, Tom Kherkher didn’t have Facebook or Instagram. “I was the guy everybody made fun of because I didn’t have social media,” he remembers.

Flash forward four years and Tom — or AttorneyTom, as he’s known online — is one of the most recognizable lawyers on the internet. He’s accumulated 500 million minutes of watch time on Facebook and 270 million views on YouTube. And as one of the first attorneys to take advantage of TikTok, he’s been able to funnel viewers toward his other content, which has generated cases for his firm.

But social media, in his opinion, isn’t always all it’s cracked up to be. It takes a lot of time and dedication to gain an audience, and even with one as big as Tom’s, social media isn’t generating hundreds of new referrals.

“I would be really skeptical of anybody who is directly making money off of you, if they’re selling you this social media product,” he says. “I do think it is going to get only better as younger people get in the workplace and are the ones who need lawyers, but slow and steady wins the race.”

So how do you gain a big social media following and keep them engaged? Which platforms generate the most success, and how can we get the most out of those platforms? Tune into this episode of Trial Lawyer Nation as Tom and host Michael Cowen talk through these topics — and reveal some social media secrets.

Featured Guest

Name: Tom Kherkher

About: Tom Kherkher is the founding attorney of The Kherkher Law Firm and an associate attorney of Kherkher Garcia. He is doing what he loves every day – fighting against injustice.

After graduating from law school and passing the Texas bar, Tom immediately founded his own law firm in Houston, Texas to fight for people and bring them justice. At The Kherkher Law Firm, Tom and his staff work tirelessly and passionately to recover damages for individuals who have suffered from the negligence of others. Tom Kherkher is licensed to practice law in the U.S. Southern District of Texas and all courts of the State of Texas and Louisiana.

Company: The Kherkher Law Firm, PLLC and Kherkher Garcia, LLP

Connect: LinkedIn | Twitter | YouTube | TikTok | Facebook | Instagram

Episode Highlights 

[01:16] The YouTube lawyer: Meet Tom Kherkher, one of the top attorneys in the social media game. As one of the most-watched lawyers online, Tom has attracted clients to his firm, but it’s not as easy as some people claim. 

[03:26] Straight outta law school: Before he even passed the bar exam, Tom had signed a lease on an office to start his own practice. He discusses why he took that risk and how he built his successful firm from scratch with the help of social media.

[08:27] Finding the sweet spot: How did Tom create a successful social media brand with millions of views? “Trial and error,” he says — and a surprising discovery about the value of longer-form YouTube content over TikTok. 

[15:08] ‘Edu-tainment’ focused: Want a loyal social media following? Stop focusing on promoting yourself and don’t expect anything in return from your followers, Tom explains. 

[19:33] What the algorithm wants: “At the end of the day, Facebook and YouTube — all they care about is making money,” Tom says. He reveals secrets to taking advantage of that business model and getting your videos recommended.

[25:12] Quantity vs. quality: Millions of views are great — but those rarely convert to cases or a loyal following. To find success, you need a healthy balance of both short-form and long-form content, says Tom. 

[30:59] The beauty of social: Which is better — pay-to-play social media or organic social media growth? Both can be effective, and both will cost you money or time to get a worthwhile return.

[36:33] One hour a week is not enough: Organic growth that makes you money can be achieved — but you have to put in the work, and hiring people doesn’t work as a shortcut, Tom explains. 

[40:56] Learn from influencers, not other lawyers: Tom explains what lawyers can learn about mindset by paying attention to young social media influencers like Mr. Beast.

[44:29] Breaking the fourth wall: This podcast follows a similar mindset as Tom’s on social media: it’s helped us build trust and get cases, but it’s taken a while to get there.

[48:48] ‘Not all it’s cracked up to be’: Tom signs off with a message to listeners: be skeptical of people who say they’re gaining hundreds of cases and making millions from social media.

Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation

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In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.

Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.

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When it comes to personal injury law, the client-firm relationship can be fairly transactional. Most clients aren’t talking about their personal injury cases with their network, and lawyers hope that their clients don’t get injured again and become repeat customers.   

But when you have mostly transactional, single-case relationships with clients, how can you gain more business? If your personal injury clients aren’t telling their network about you, who will?

One of the most rewarding methods for gaining more business is referral marketing. Creating longstanding attorney referral relationships gives you a pipeline for more cases, helps you build a reputation, and keeps your firm top of mind in the industry. However, in order to succeed with referral-based marketing, you have to cultivate your relationships and think about what the other person wants. 

According to Michael Cowen and the team at Cowen Rodriguez Peacock, you have to give back in order to grow your referral-based business. Take referring attorneys out to lunch or to an event that they would enjoy. Or, give them a gift that’s personalized (and doesn’t have your firm’s name or logo on it). However you decide to show gratitude to your referral partners, it’s important that you create a system to follow up, check in every now and then, and continue nurturing that relationship.

Above all, Michael says that it’s important to create a culture of sharing and respect and keep your promises with referring attorneys. You don’t have to take every case that comes your way, and you can’t guarantee the outcome of a case. You can, however, promise to work hard, keep clients informed, and honor the deal you made. 

In episode 117, Isabella Santellan, the Marketing Assistant at Cowen Rodriguez Peacock, asks Michael Cowen all of the essential questions about building a referral-based business and tending to referral relationships. Listen to this episode of Trial Lawyer Nation to hear Michael’s advice on building a referral network and nurturing relationships, turning down referral cases, and simplifying the referral process for your firm. 

Featured Guest

Name: Isabella Santellan

About: Isabella Santellan is the Marketing Assistant at Cowen Rodriguez Peacock. She was born and raised in San Antonio, TX and recently received her B.B.A in Management from the University of Texas at San Antonio. As the Marketing Assistant, Isabella runs the firm’s social media, helps plan events, and works to ensure they provide an unforgettable experience to everyone they work with. In her free time, Isabella enjoys traveling, golfing, and spending time with her family.

Company: Cowen Rodriguez Peacock

Connect: LinkedIn

Key Points

Top takeaways from this episode 

• Start with the people you already know (and don’t be too picky about cases). It’s difficult to come out of law school and have the reputation and network needed to create a referral-based business. Michael Cowen suggests you get your foot in the door by being hungry, humble, and persistent. Take cases from those who are already in your network and expand your business from there.   
• Give your referring attorneys what they want. It’s important to stay top of mind when you’re building a referral-based business. How do you do this? Michael says you need to give back to your referral partners. Take your referring attorneys to lunch or to an event that they might enjoy. You could also give them a call, send a handwritten thank you note, or give them a gift (without your firm’s name or logo on it). However you show gratitude, you have to do so with the other person in mind.
• Nurture your existing referrals. When trying to build a referral-based business, many firms make the mistake of moving on to new referrals without nurturing existing partnerships. But the key is to create longstanding relationships with attorney referrals. It’s much harder to convince someone new to send you the first case, and it’s more fruitful to put effort into the connections that are already sending business your way.   

Episode Highlights 

[02:40] The foundation of great attorney referral relationships: The key to establishing great referral relationships is nurturing your connections, setting expectations upfront, and making sure you stay top of mind.

[06:05] The three things a referring lawyer or co-counsel wants: Every referring lawyer or co-counsel wants as much money as possible, as quickly as possible, without client complaints. Michael Cowen breaks down the details of how to achieve this. 

[07:27] How to keep a referring lawyer’s attention: Michael shares Cowen Rodriguez Peacock’s strategies for keeping a referring lawyer’s attention and making sure they choose you over competitors. 

[09:07] Turning down a referral’s case: The number one step to respectfully turn down a referral’s case is to do it swiftly. It’s hard to say no, but it’s better than accepting a case that you’ll later regret. Michael also suggests directing a case to a different firm and offering a possible solution. 

[12:00] What you can and can’t guarantee to a referring lawyer: You can’t guarantee the outcome of a case, but you can promise that you’ll work hard and keep the team informed about the details of a case. 

[13:13] How a new attorney can build their referral network: Start with people you already know. From there, you can build out your network and run your business on referrals. Especially when starting out, you have to get your foot in the door — you can’t be too picky about cases until you build your reputation.

[18:30] Michael’s experience with referrals: Michael shares his advice for working with referring lawyers and developing your referral process. He also talks about the big mistakes he made early in his career and how you can avoid those same mistakes. 

[25:32] Simplifying the referral process: The key to simplifying the process for referring attorneys is to remove the bottlenecks. If you’re busy, put them in contact with someone else on your team who can give them the time and attention they need. For Michael, getting clear on criteria for automatic ‘yeses’ and ‘nos’ can help simplify the process as well.  

[26:51] Other methods to gain referrals: Michael explains how his seminar, Big Rig Boot Camp, and his podcast create a referral funnel and generate more business. 

[30:43] What to do after you win the referral: It can be tempting to constantly look for new referrals, but Michael advises you to spend more time and effort on your existing referral relationships.

Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation

☑️ Follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram & LinkedIn.

☑️ Subscribe to Trial Lawyer Nation on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube.

In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.

Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.

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A new year is an excellent opportunity to reflect on your progress and set or reassess goals. That’s the easy part. The challenge comes when your motivation wanes as the year wears on. How does a trial lawyer, with too many tasks to juggle already, set (and stick to) a lofty set of personal and professional goals?

Michael Cowen and Malorie Peacock share their personal and professional goals for 2023, the challenges of sticking to intentions, and what they’re excited about for Cowen Rodriguez Peacock in the new year.

They also remind listeners that achieving goals is a continuous journey. Stumbling isn’t a reason to give up on your goals. Struggling is normal, it’s those that keep pushing and stay ready for the fight that find success.

Join Michael and Malorie for more tips and inspiration for setting achievable goals in 2023, finding balance between your personal and professional lives, and pushing through even when it gets hard. 

Featured Guest

Name: Malorie J. Peacock

About: Malorie J. Peacock is a Partner at Cowen Rodriguez Peacock. She was born and raised in San Antonio, Texas and received her J.D. from the University of Houston Law Center. During her time with Cowen Rodriguez Peacock, Malorie has worked on numerous commercial vehicle, trucking, and wrongful death cases. Malorie brings close attention to detail, commitment to finding safety issues and areas of neglect, continued utilization of technology and cutting-edge visuals in cases, along with a sincere passion to help those who have been hurt, to each and every case.

Company: Cowen Rodriguez Peacock 

Connect: LinkedIn 

Episode Highlights 

[01:47] Looking forward to a new year: Michael and Malorie reflect on 2022 and share their enthusiasm for 2023.

[03:50] Setting and achieving personal goals: Michael discusses his personal goals for 2023 and why he believes everyone should set personal goals. He also reflects on the challenges he’s faced in sticking to his intentions.

[08:35] Career-related goals for 2023: Sharing his trial goals, Michael is ready to “get in there and pick some juries and start fighting and hopefully get some verdicts.” Additionally, he plans to continue helping lawyers develop their trial skills, invest more in his New Mexico firm, Begum & Cowen, and focus on the marketing efforts at Cowen Rodriguez Peacock.

[11:17] Finding balance: Last year, Malorie focused on balancing her roles as a new mom and a trial lawyer. This year, “my bigger focus is going to be on making sure that I’m keeping better control of my calendars, that I don’t have back to back weeks when I’m out of town and away from my kid.”

[13:49] Achieving freedom in your busy schedule: Malorie and Michael talk about why it’s essential to develop your people and relinquish some control in order to gain freedom in your schedule.

[20:07] On developing trial skills: From a supportive firm to trial and error, Malorie shares her strategies for developing trial skills over the past 10 years. Michael also contributes his thoughts on finding success through your own style and strategy.

[24:42] Imperfection isn’t the end of the world: lawyers tend to catastrophize situations and worry that they’ll lose a case if they don’t execute the plan flawlessly. Michael reminds listeners that jurors decide cases on major principles or themes — not on minor mistakes.

[26:22] Always be prepared for the fight: “Even the people that have beaten me in trial, they end up paying me more the next time because it was not a fun ride for them. They know that they just got lucky that day or just the facts were on their side that day.”

Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation

☑️ Follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram & LinkedIn.

☑️ Subscribe to Trial Lawyer Nation on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and YouTube.

In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.

Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.