131 – John Romano – The Art of Trial Preparation

Being an exceptional trial lawyer requires mastering a lot of skills they don’t teach in school. The same can be said for being an exceptional parent. But, sticking the landing on both? That must be a pipedream, right?

On this episode of Trial Lawyer Nation, Michael Cowen and his new Partner, Natalie Arledge, discuss whether it’s possible to be a successful trial lawyer without being a shitty parent. Through the lens of a mom of two, Natalie discusses the challenges of developing as a trial lawyer, her journey from associate to partner, and the unique lessons she learned along the way.

Featured Guest

Name: Natalie Arledge

About: Natalie is a Partner at Cowen | Rodriguez | Peacock and a mom of two. Natalie was born and raised in San Antonio and attended Baylor University for college and law school. When not in the office, Natalie enjoys spending time with her family and their two dogs.

Connect: LinkedIn

Episode Highlights 

[3:37] From Associate to Partner: Natalie discusses developing her skills as a trial lawyer and her journey to Partner.

[7:50] Gaining Confidence as a Lawyer: How empathizing with her children and her injured clients helped sharpen her confidence in the courtroom.

[11:20] Observing, Seminars, Mentorship: The benefits of attending seminars, joining associations, networking with peers, and developing mentors.

[14:19] Behind the Wheel of a Big Rig: Micheal and Natalie share valuable lessons learned and their newfound appreciation for the trucking driving experience after getting behind the wheel at the Montana truck driving school.

[18:23] Life as a Lawyer and Parent: Success begins with focusing on being efficient with your time and understanding you simply cannot be present in both roles at the same time.

[23:12] Maternity Leave: Natalie reveals her fears and insecurities going into maternity leave, as well as the guilt of passing off her cases to her colleagues.

[31:37] Closing Advice: Developing a killer mindset, nailing depositions, crossing witnesses, and getting the defense to pay top dollar.

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In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.

Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.

Before opening his own firm after graduating from law school in 2018, Tom Kherkher didn’t have Facebook or Instagram. “I was the guy everybody made fun of because I didn’t have social media,” he remembers.

Flash forward four years and Tom — or AttorneyTom, as he’s known online — is one of the most recognizable lawyers on the internet. He’s accumulated 500 million minutes of watch time on Facebook and 270 million views on YouTube. And as one of the first attorneys to take advantage of TikTok, he’s been able to funnel viewers toward his other content, which has generated cases for his firm.

But social media, in his opinion, isn’t always all it’s cracked up to be. It takes a lot of time and dedication to gain an audience, and even with one as big as Tom’s, social media isn’t generating hundreds of new referrals.

“I would be really skeptical of anybody who is directly making money off of you, if they’re selling you this social media product,” he says. “I do think it is going to get only better as younger people get in the workplace and are the ones who need lawyers, but slow and steady wins the race.”

So how do you gain a big social media following and keep them engaged? Which platforms generate the most success, and how can we get the most out of those platforms? Tune into this episode of Trial Lawyer Nation as Tom and host Michael Cowen talk through these topics — and reveal some social media secrets.

Featured Guest

Name: Tom Kherkher

About: Tom Kherkher is the founding attorney of The Kherkher Law Firm and an associate attorney of Kherkher Garcia. He is doing what he loves every day – fighting against injustice.

After graduating from law school and passing the Texas bar, Tom immediately founded his own law firm in Houston, Texas to fight for people and bring them justice. At The Kherkher Law Firm, Tom and his staff work tirelessly and passionately to recover damages for individuals who have suffered from the negligence of others. Tom Kherkher is licensed to practice law in the U.S. Southern District of Texas and all courts of the State of Texas and Louisiana.

Company: The Kherkher Law Firm, PLLC and Kherkher Garcia, LLP

Connect: LinkedIn | Twitter | YouTube | TikTok | Facebook | Instagram

Episode Highlights 

[01:16] The YouTube lawyer: Meet Tom Kherkher, one of the top attorneys in the social media game. As one of the most-watched lawyers online, Tom has attracted clients to his firm, but it’s not as easy as some people claim. 

[03:26] Straight outta law school: Before he even passed the bar exam, Tom had signed a lease on an office to start his own practice. He discusses why he took that risk and how he built his successful firm from scratch with the help of social media.

[08:27] Finding the sweet spot: How did Tom create a successful social media brand with millions of views? “Trial and error,” he says — and a surprising discovery about the value of longer-form YouTube content over TikTok. 

[15:08] ‘Edu-tainment’ focused: Want a loyal social media following? Stop focusing on promoting yourself and don’t expect anything in return from your followers, Tom explains. 

[19:33] What the algorithm wants: “At the end of the day, Facebook and YouTube — all they care about is making money,” Tom says. He reveals secrets to taking advantage of that business model and getting your videos recommended.

[25:12] Quantity vs. quality: Millions of views are great — but those rarely convert to cases or a loyal following. To find success, you need a healthy balance of both short-form and long-form content, says Tom. 

[30:59] The beauty of social: Which is better — pay-to-play social media or organic social media growth? Both can be effective, and both will cost you money or time to get a worthwhile return.

[36:33] One hour a week is not enough: Organic growth that makes you money can be achieved — but you have to put in the work, and hiring people doesn’t work as a shortcut, Tom explains. 

[40:56] Learn from influencers, not other lawyers: Tom explains what lawyers can learn about mindset by paying attention to young social media influencers like Mr. Beast.

[44:29] Breaking the fourth wall: This podcast follows a similar mindset as Tom’s on social media: it’s helped us build trust and get cases, but it’s taken a while to get there.

[48:48] ‘Not all it’s cracked up to be’: Tom signs off with a message to listeners: be skeptical of people who say they’re gaining hundreds of cases and making millions from social media.

Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation

☑️ Follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram & LinkedIn.

☑️ Subscribe to Trial Lawyer Nation on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and YouTube.

In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.

Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.

“The relationship between the expert and the lawyer is a lot like a horse and a rider. I don’t want you to lead me in a dangerous situation, and I don’t want to lead you in a dangerous situation.”

On this episode of Trial Lawyer Nation, host Michael Cowen is joined by his partner Sonia Rodriguez, for a discussion on the dos and don’ts of working with retained expert witnesses. Sonia and Michael discuss the importance of consistent communication with your expert and remembering that while they may be the expert in their field, you’re the expert in the courtroom. Experts are equipped with technical knowledge, but when it comes to getting a jury to believe your story, it’s best to keep things simple. Just like a rider guides a horse, lawyers must guide their experts–the expert must know why they’ve been hired and how the lawyer sees them fitting in the case.

Featured Guest

Name: Sonia Rodriguez

About: Sonia Rodriguez, a native of San Antonio, Texas, is a partner at Cowen Rodriguez Peacock. Sonia has represented only plaintiffs for nearly 20 years, and she practices in the areas of personal injury trial and appellate law. Beyond the practice of law, Sonia has provided unwavering support to a number of important civic and community causes, including the Young Women’s Leadership Academy and the SAISD Foundation.

Company: Cowen Rodriguez Peacock

Connect: LinkedIn

Episode Highlights 

[2:07] The frustration of experts who don’t cite their sources: Retained experts may refuse to back up their opinions with authorities and publications, however, it’s vital that juries hear those citations. The best kinds of experts are natural teachers who want to back up their opinions with data. 

[5:42] Dealing with unwieldy experts: When faced with an expert who doesn’t want to anchor their opinions, Sonia reminds the expert that she is trying to protect them because Daubert motions are a real risk. 

[7:37] Ensuring nothing is missed: In order to keep everyone on schedule, Sonia communicates with her experts early and often, and always provides a “fake” deadline that builds in plenty of room for flexibility. Sonia also tells experts what they will be using to tell their story to the jury, so they can craft their trial testimony accordingly. 

[14:00] When one expert relies on another: Sometimes experts rely on the opinions of another testifying expert to craft their report, so Sonia recommends connecting experts and coordinating schedules as early as possible.

[19:42] How to ensure testimony is cohesive and persuasive: Sonia suggests figuring out where the expert’s opinion fits into your larger story at trial to utilize their testimony most effectively. Keeping the opinions in plain English is always a must.

[24:45] “Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde” Experts: Sometimes experts can be charming and forthcoming on direct examination, but completely turn into another person on cross-examination, becoming defensive and argumentative. That’s when you know it’s time to stop using those experts!

[26:53] Pitfalls of listserv recommendations: While Sonia praises fellow members of the plaintiff’s bar for providing expert recommendations on the listserv, Michael cautions that you must always take these recommendations with a grain of salt and consider the source.

[30:20] Sonia’s final advice on experts: Don’t rely on staff to handle communications with experts; managing experts yourself minimizes the risk of miscommunications. Next, don’t forget to provide experts with key discovery materials as they are uncovered. Finally, build a personal relationship with experts.

Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation

☑️ Follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram & LinkedIn.

☑️ Subscribe to Trial Lawyer Nation on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and YouTube.

In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.

Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.