132 – Malorie Peacock – The Hidden Power of Lay Witnesses

Odds are, growing a law firm wasn’t built into your law school’s curriculum. You may be a fantastic lawyer, you may start a top-notch small firm, but if you’re setting out to scale what you’ve built then you will find a whole new set of challenges to tackle.

If you’re contemplating growing your firm or in the midst of the process, this episode is for you. 

In episode 120, Michael Cowen is joined by Malorie Peacock, his fellow Partner & Trial Lawyer at Cowen, Rodriguez and Peacock PC about how to grow a law firm. On this episode of Trial Lawyer Nation, Michael and Malorie outline the mindset needed to start and grow a law firm, the pains and joys of scaling your firm from solo to the next stage, how navigate working with a consultant, how to manage and work with your team, tips on marketing efforts, and much more.

Featured Guest

Name: Malorie Peacock

About:  Malorie J. Peacock is a Partner at Cowen Rodriguez Peacock. She was born and raised in San Antonio, Texas and received her J.D. from the University of Houston Law Center. During her time with Cowen Rodriguez Peacock, Malorie has worked on numerous commercial vehicle, trucking, and wrongful death cases. Malorie brings close attention to detail, commitment to finding safety issues and areas of neglect, continued utilization of technology and cutting-edge visuals in cases, along with a sincere passion to help those who have been hurt, to each and every case.

Company: Partner And Trial Lawyer, Cowen | Rodriguez | Peacock PC

Connect: Linkedin

Episode Highlights 

[03:01] Not Every Attorney Try To Have A Bigger Firm: Malorie reveals that it’s not the best fit for everyone to have a large firm. Solo firms and small firms are great options depending on your career goals. 

[09:15] Creating Systems Of Accountability In Your Business: As you are looking to manage your business health, also gauge your personal and team accountability. 

[13:05] You have to learn to give up control over certain things as your firm grows: How Michael and Sonia have kept up with their team’s needs with a changing job market.

[26:49] Managing your team, especially with new lawyers: When working with a team, learning to adjust behaviors and expectations is imperative for a healthy team culture.

[38:09] How to balance being an exceptional lawyer with an exceptional law practice: Although your time is eaten up by running a law firm business, there are many methods and practices that you can apply to balance the law firm with practicing law yourself.

[42:24] Best practices for coaching team members: It can be difficult telling a team member you don’t like what they do, but by using radical candor you can help a team member be better for them and for the rest of the team. 

[40:32] Hiring for the things you don’t want to do: One of the keys to balance is to hire a great team to handle the business side of a law firm so you can focus on the practice side.

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In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.

Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.

Focus groups can be a pertinent tool for complicated cases to get a sense of how ordinary people think about a case.

Malorie J. Peacock, Partner at Cowen Rodriguez Peacock, uses focus groups to gain an outside perspective on her cases.

“Sometimes you get so wrapped up in the minutiae of your case or some technical details, or you’ve learned the case so well that you think it’s obvious to everybody else,” she explains. “Having that outside perspective is a way to get feedback to make sure you’re not just buying your own bullshit.”

Host Michael Cowen joins in on the discussion with Malorie who recently returned from hosting a focus group for one of her upcoming cases. They share what they’ve learned about focus groups, why you should consider using them in your own cases, how to facilitate them, what you gain from them, and most importantly, how to learn from them to inform your cases.

The episode provides examples of how to use both concept and adversarial focus groups to achieve your objectives, sharing real-life case studies that both Michael and Malorie have seen play out first-hand.

Featured Guest

Name: Malorie J. Peacock

About: Malorie J. Peacock is Partner at Cowen Rodriguez Peacock. She was born and raised in San Antonio, Texas, and received her JD from the University of Houston Law Center. During her time with Cowen Rodriguez Peacock, Malorie has worked on numerous commercial vehicle, trucking, and wrongful death cases. Malorie brings close attention to detail, commitment to finding safety issues and areas of neglect, continued utilization of technology and cutting-edge visuals in cases, along with a sincere passion to help those who have been hurt, to each and every case.

Firm: Cowen Rodriguez Peacock 

Connect: LinkedIn

Episode Highlights 

[02:18] Focus groups, defined: Malorie explains that a focus group is simply a group of people who are not associated with your case that allow you to test your strategy and get feedback. 

[05:29] Different ways to test: There are many different ways to employ focus groups to add value to your case. Malorie advises the most important thing is knowing the purpose of the focus group.

[09:38] Bringing out your competitive nature: Michael talks about how adversarial focus groups can help lawyers rehearse for their cases ahead of time while channeling their competitive sides.

[13:41] Focus groups are not predictive of the numbers: Malorie reviews all the different variables that can change between a focus group and a court case that affect the numbers in the final outcome.

[15:21] Expect the unexpected: Michael speaks to how certain rulings from judges or specific facts being presented can have a big impact on how a case proceeds. 

[21:18] Emotional attachments can get in the way: Michael points out that if you’re feeling emotional about a case and can’t run the focus group from a neutral perspective it might be better to hire a third party facilitator. 

[24:35] How to find people to participate: Several different channels can be used to recruit people for focus groups. 

[25:32] The right way to use Facebook ads: Michael provides an overview on how to properly use Facebook ads to recruit participants while maintaining neutrality in the process. 

[35:10] To record or not to record?: Michael and Malorie debate how they prefer to record and document focus groups along with the benefits of each method. 

[45:48] Choosing the right people to present: Malorie advises on how to balance the skills and likeability of two people if you’re holding an adversarial focus group to get good information. 

[53:41] Big Rig Boot Camp: Michael reminds listeners that registration is open for the Big Rig Boot Camp on June 16th in San Antonio, TX.

Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation

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In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.

Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.

Helping attorneys create great company culture is what motivates Jessica Mogill to give her best every day. As Head of Coaching Strategy at Crisp, the nation’s leading law firm growth company, Jessica helps attorneys define and improve their culture. 

“Culture is really what drives the experience. And it drives the emotions that you feel,” Jessica says. “And I think that when you have team members who are part of a culture and part of a mission and a vision, your clients do feel that, your referral partners feel that, and they know that there’s something special about this place.” 

Jessica offers advice on how to start defining your core values, creating KPIs that are measurable, and onboarding new team members to make them part of your team culture. 

She also reflects on some lackluster onboarding experiences that she experienced early on in her career and how those initial interactions soured her perception of those companies from the very beginning. 

For professionals working on trucking or company vehicle cases, host Michael Cowen closes the episode with a reminder that he is hosting the upcoming Big Rig Boot Camp on June 16th in San Antonio, Texas.

Featured Guest

Name: Jessica Mogill

About: Jessica Mogill is Head of Coaching Strategy at Crisp, the nation’s premiere law firm growth company. On paper, Jessica is an industrial engineer and got started in her career as an engineer in steel-toed boots and a hard hat. 

When the time came for a career shift, she entered Crisp on the ground floor back in 2014. While she originally only planned to advise Crisp for 30 days, almost 10 years later, she’s helped Crisp grow to unimaginable heights. Through her experience growing Crisp, Jessica has developed a unique set of leadership and strategic skills, which she now translates into guidance not only for the internal team but also for Crisp Coach clients. 

As the mastermind behind the content and experience of the industry-leading Crisp Coach program, Jessica keeps a pulse on the challenges, opportunities, and knowledge gaps facing the leaders of the nation’s top law firms — and delivers solutions that transform.

Company: Crisp

Connect: LinkedIn 

Key Points 

Top takeaways from this episode

• Culture starts with core values. Defining your core values is the basis to defining your company culture. It’s also normal for core values to change over time as a company grows or needs different things. Ideally, review your core values annually to confirm they still work for the business.
• Invest in your team. Take a 360 degree view of investing in your team. This can include lunch and learns, training, and social events. At Crisp, there is a culture committee who is responsible for regularly planning events for the team in support of core values. 
• Assessments can improve the hiring process. Hiring assessments can be used to enhance your hiring process and align candidates with the work that is best suited for their strengths. Examples of assessments used at Crisp are Kolbe, PRINT, and Wonderlic assessments.
• Setting KPIs helps build high performing firms. KPIs let attorneys objectively review performance. A good KPI measures the root issue that needs to be addressed. Using software for tracking and reporting can keep you accountable but you can start with a simple spreadsheet if you don’t currently have software in place.

Episode Highlights 

[05:53] Culture is how stuff gets done: Jessica distills down the definition of culture to be how work gets done — what the standards are, what you’ll tolerate, and what is and is not acceptable at your firm. 

[08:19] Deciding on your culture: Jessica believes that every company will have a different culture based on its unique values.

[11:05] Start with core values: Jessica recommends starting with core values when defining your culture. She explains that core values are what you endorse versus what you tolerate.

[14:27] Go back and revisit core values regularly: At Crisp, Jessica reviews the company’s core values on a quarterly basis to ensure they’re still true. At a minimum, she recommends reviewing core values on an annual basis.

[19:33] Finding the right people is the hardest thing: Jessica speaks to how the recruitment process works at Crisp.

[29:42] Data creates high-performing firms: Jessica explains that key performance indicators (KPIs) will make you more objective in evaluating performance — you either hit the target or you don’t.

[36:57] Onboarding is overlooked and undervalued: Jessica walks us through how she approaches approving new positions and onboarding new team members at Crisp to give them the best possible experience.

[40:53] Volunteers, not hostages: Jessica shares the different questions she asks to determine if a person is the right player to have on her team. If your company has outgrown a team member, you need to start with a candid conversation.

[46:00] Communicate with context: Jessica describes how a new team member is essentially jumping on a moving train and lacks the institutional knowledge that other team members have built over time. It’s important to slow down and add context to get the best results.

[57:26] Big Rig Boot Camp: Michael reminds listeners that the Big Rig Boot Camp is coming up on June 16th in San Antonio, Texas.

Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation

☑️ Follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram & LinkedIn.

☑️ Subscribe to Trial Lawyer Nation on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and YouTube.

In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.

Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.