“The relationship between the expert and the lawyer is a lot like a horse and a rider. I don’t want you to lead me in a dangerous situation, and I don’t want to lead you in a dangerous situation.”
On this episode of Trial Lawyer Nation, host Michael Cowen is joined by his partner Sonia Rodriguez, for a discussion on the dos and don’ts of working with retained expert witnesses. Sonia and Michael discuss the importance of consistent communication with your expert and remembering that while they may be the expert in their field, you’re the expert in the courtroom. Experts are equipped with technical knowledge, but when it comes to getting a jury to believe your story, it’s best to keep things simple. Just like a rider guides a horse, lawyers must guide their experts–the expert must know why they’ve been hired and how the lawyer sees them fitting in the case.
Featured Guest
Name: Sonia Rodriguez
About: Sonia Rodriguez, a native of San Antonio, Texas, is a partner at Cowen Rodriguez Peacock. Sonia has represented only plaintiffs for nearly 20 years, and she practices in the areas of personal injury trial and appellate law. Beyond the practice of law, Sonia has provided unwavering support to a number of important civic and community causes, including the Young Women’s Leadership Academy and the SAISD Foundation.
Company: Cowen Rodriguez Peacock
Connect: LinkedIn
Episode Highlights
[2:07] The frustration of experts who don’t cite their sources: Retained experts may refuse to back up their opinions with authorities and publications, however, it’s vital that juries hear those citations. The best kinds of experts are natural teachers who want to back up their opinions with data.
[5:42] Dealing with unwieldy experts: When faced with an expert who doesn’t want to anchor their opinions, Sonia reminds the expert that she is trying to protect them because Daubert motions are a real risk.
[7:37] Ensuring nothing is missed: In order to keep everyone on schedule, Sonia communicates with her experts early and often, and always provides a “fake” deadline that builds in plenty of room for flexibility. Sonia also tells experts what they will be using to tell their story to the jury, so they can craft their trial testimony accordingly.
[14:00] When one expert relies on another: Sometimes experts rely on the opinions of another testifying expert to craft their report, so Sonia recommends connecting experts and coordinating schedules as early as possible.
[19:42] How to ensure testimony is cohesive and persuasive: Sonia suggests figuring out where the expert’s opinion fits into your larger story at trial to utilize their testimony most effectively. Keeping the opinions in plain English is always a must.
[24:45] “Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde” Experts: Sometimes experts can be charming and forthcoming on direct examination, but completely turn into another person on cross-examination, becoming defensive and argumentative. That’s when you know it’s time to stop using those experts!
[26:53] Pitfalls of listserv recommendations: While Sonia praises fellow members of the plaintiff’s bar for providing expert recommendations on the listserv, Michael cautions that you must always take these recommendations with a grain of salt and consider the source.
[30:20] Sonia’s final advice on experts: Don’t rely on staff to handle communications with experts; managing experts yourself minimizes the risk of miscommunications. Next, don’t forget to provide experts with key discovery materials as they are uncovered. Finally, build a personal relationship with experts.
Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation
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In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.
Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.
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136 – Natalie Arledge – Can You Be a Successful Trial Lawyer Without Being a Sh*tty Parent?
Being an exceptional trial lawyer requires mastering a lot of skills they don’t teach in school. The same can be said for being an exceptional parent. But, sticking the landing on both? That must be a pipedream, right?
On this episode of Trial Lawyer Nation, Michael Cowen and his new Partner, Natalie Arledge, discuss whether it’s possible to be a successful trial lawyer without being a shitty parent. Through the lens of a mom of two, Natalie discusses the challenges of developing as a trial lawyer, her journey from associate to partner, and the unique lessons she learned along the way.
Featured Guest
Name: Natalie Arledge
About: Natalie is a Partner at Cowen | Rodriguez | Peacock and a mom of two. Natalie was born and raised in San Antonio and attended Baylor University for college and law school. When not in the office, Natalie enjoys spending time with her family and their two dogs.
Connect: LinkedIn
Episode Highlights
[3:37] From Associate to Partner: Natalie discusses developing her skills as a trial lawyer and her journey to Partner.
[7:50] Gaining Confidence as a Lawyer: How empathizing with her children and her injured clients helped sharpen her confidence in the courtroom.
[11:20] Observing, Seminars, Mentorship: The benefits of attending seminars, joining associations, networking with peers, and developing mentors.
[14:19] Behind the Wheel of a Big Rig: Micheal and Natalie share valuable lessons learned and their newfound appreciation for the trucking driving experience after getting behind the wheel at the Montana truck driving school.
[18:23] Life as a Lawyer and Parent: Success begins with focusing on being efficient with your time and understanding you simply cannot be present in both roles at the same time.
[23:12] Maternity Leave: Natalie reveals her fears and insecurities going into maternity leave, as well as the guilt of passing off her cases to her colleagues.
[31:37] Closing Advice: Developing a killer mindset, nailing depositions, crossing witnesses, and getting the defense to pay top dollar.
Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation
☑️ Follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram & LinkedIn.
☑️ Subscribe to Trial Lawyer Nation on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and YouTube.
In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.
Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.
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126 – Malorie Peacock – Unlocking the Power of Telematics: How Distracted Driving Evidence Can Win Big Verdicts
Although technology has improved our quality of life, there are negative consequences, such as the increase in automobile and truck accidents stemming from distracted driving.
Despite the benefits of GPS tracking, specialized brake systems, and virtual logging of hours, there have been issues with falsified data, unassigned drive time, and “phantom drivers” in the trucking industry.
Fortunately, telematics has helped mitigate some of these problems by providing real-time notifications and useful data. However, the proliferation of apps and systems has also increased distractions for drivers, leading to safety risks.
In this episode of Trial Lawyer Nation, Malorie J. Peacock, Partner at Cowen Rodriguez Peacock, and host Michael Cowen discuss the intersection of technology and driving. They examine the pros and cons of technology on the road, how it affects truck drivers, and how telematics data can assist lawyers in automobile and trucking cases.
Featured Guest
Name: Malorie J. Peacock
About: Malorie J. Peacock is a Partner at Cowen Rodriguez Peacock. She was born and raised in San Antonio, Texas and received her J.D. from the University of Houston Law Center. During her time with Cowen Rodriguez Peacock, Malorie has worked on numerous commercial vehicle, trucking, and wrongful death cases. Malorie brings close attention to detail, commitment to finding safety issues and areas of neglect, continued utilization of technology and cutting-edge visuals in cases, along with a sincere passion to help those who have been hurt, to each and every case.
Company: Cowen Rodriguez Peacock
Connect: LinkedIn
Episode Highlights
[2:40] Electronic systems for the road: Malorie provides an overview of the technology available in modern vehicles.
[4:40] Electronic logging devices: In the past, truck drivers would record their hours of service on paper. However, this approach became fully digitized a few years ago and now involves GPS data. Despite its benefits, there are also drawbacks associated with this system.
[7:54] Cheating the system: Despite their apparent reliability, electronic logging devices can be manipulated by truck drivers to falsify their driving hours.
[12:30] A problem of perverse incentives: The trucking industry faces a significant issue with the fabrication of logs, as it benefits both truck drivers and trucking companies.
[14:58] The benefits of telematics: Electronic systems equipped with GPS tracking, known as telematics, can collect and transmit a wide range of data to a central location, providing transparency and enhancing safety measures.
[18:52] Investing in telematics: Telematics offer numerous benefits, including increased safety, reduced insurance claims, video evidence, and economic advantages.
[21:38] Getting the data: Obtaining data from telematics can be a complex process, dependent on the system, procedures, and company. Malorie and Michael delve into the various capabilities and recommend seeking expert assistance.
[26:42] The downside of technology and truck driving: While technological advancements offer benefits, they also pose an increased risk of distraction. Malorie and Michael discuss the potential use of phone data in distracted driving cases and the complexities surrounding data ownership.
[33:26] Distractions from driving apps: Certain applications, such as electronic logging devices, can distract truck drivers, while other job-specific apps may elevate the risk of distraction for delivery drivers and rideshare drivers.
[35:16] Examining driving apps: For those seeking to learn more about designing an app for their needs, Malorie suggests conducting a Google search to access videos exploring specific apps and their creation. She cautions against investing too heavily in apps or data that will not significantly impact their case.
Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation
☑️ Follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram & LinkedIn.
☑️ Subscribe to Trial Lawyer Nation on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and YouTube.
In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.
Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.
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116 – Michael Bonamarte – What Does It Take to Win a $20 Million Verdict?
Michael Bonamarte wasn’t always set on being a trial lawyer. In college, he started out on a pre-med track, eventually discovering a passion for the law. Now, he runs a successful firm with 20 years under his belt — and a $20 million verdict. What does it take to reach this level of success?
Throughout his career, Michael soaked up knowledge from the greats in his industry. From mentors and partners to books and other educational tools, Michael made sure he was learning everything he could so that he could go to bat for his clients. Because of this passion and drive, Michael won a plethora of large cases.
One of these large cases received a successful $20 million verdict. This multimillion-dollar case covered a difficult birthing complication, where the baby, AJ, was diagnosed with fetal growth restriction at 40 weeks. Significant changes in the fetal heart rate strips were not brought to the attending doctor’s attention, and ultimately, AJ suffered brain damage. Although he should live a regular life expectancy, AJ’s neurological function is limited and he will likely need custodial care for the rest of his life.
Due to the technicalities of the case, Michael knew he needed support from great experts. With the help of both law firm partners and medical experts, Michael was able to solidify the win. The medical experts could explain the points that matter and simplify complex terms for the jury. The defense, who argued that fetal growth restriction was caused by a genetic growth issue, didn’t have the necessary experts to strengthen their argument, which contributed to Michael and his team’s big win.
Throughout his career, Michael has had plenty of multimillion-dollar wins. Now, as a managing partner of his firm, Michael is helping other lawyers find that same success. By investing in the firm, making himself accessible to younger lawyers, and sharing all of his insight and knowledge, Michael is helping shape the next generation of lawyers winning million-dollar verdicts.
In episode 116, Michael Cowen is in conversation with Michael Bonamarte, Managing Partner at Levin & Perconti, to get all of the details on the $20 million verdict. Michael walks through the big case, from the opening statement and jury selection to the closing arguments and ultimate win. On this insightful episode of Trial Lawyer Nation, Michael also discusses what it’s like running a law firm, how he built up his skills early in his career, and the best ways to bounce back from a loss.
Featured Guest
Name: Michael Bonamarte
About: Michael Bonamarte, IV is a nationally recognized trial attorney who has achieved outstanding results in a number of high-profile nursing home, wrongful death, birth injury, and medical malpractice cases. He is committed to protecting and vindicating the rights of people who have been injured due to systemic flaws and corporations choosing profits over people. Michael is currently a Managing Partner at Levin & Perconti law firm in Chicago, Illinois.
Company: Levin & Perconti
Connect: Email | 312-516-1129
Key Points
Top takeaways from this episode
- You have to be a sponge to develop your skills as a trial lawyer. Michael Bonamarte has a passion for representing people who have been wronged. But passion doesn’t always mean you have the skills to succeed. So how do you develop your skills? According to Michael, you have to be a sponge and soak up all of the insight from other lawyers, mentors, and resources in your field.
- A strong argument requires the right experts. Especially if you’re working on a technical case, you need the right experts to guide you through complex terms and concepts. Additionally, experts serve as credible sources to support your argument during trial.
- Give the case your all. No matter how great of a lawyer you are, you won’t win every case. In order to bounce back from the losses, it’s important that you give every case your all. When you know that you did everything you could for a client, a loss is somewhat easier to bear.
Episode Highlights
[02:23] The beginning of an outstanding law career: Michael Bonamarte talks about his journey in the field of law and his work at Levin & Perconti.
[06:23] Developing trial skills: Michael shares how he went from a pre-med path in college to becoming a successful trial lawyer. He also discusses the people who have influenced his law career and how he stays educated.
[08:45] The $20 million verdict: Michael gets into the details of a difficult birthing case, sharing the complications of the birth and why it was such a big case.
[18:44] The defense of the case: According to Michael, there was an overwhelming number of expert witnesses for the case. But the defense, who argued that fetal growth restriction was caused by a genetic growth issue in this case, didn’t have the necessary experts to strengthen their argument.
[22:33] Michael’s strategy for winning the case: Because the case was extremely technical, Michael attributes much of his success to his partners and medical experts. These experts could simplify things for the jury, explain the relevant case points, and ensure that all information was accurate.
[27:05] The jury selection: Michael walks through the jury selection process specific to the case, how he set up a foundation of mutual respect, and how he exposed bias through a lighthearted example (deep dish or thin crust pizza?).
[36:06] The opening statement: Michael’s partner, Margaret, did the opening statement, and they chose to start off with the base premise of a healthy birth. They presented what should happen during a healthy birth, and then they presented plan B — what happens when that first scenario isn’t possible.
[44:47] Why presentation matters: Michael talks about a lung cancer case with a 40-year smoker and how he presented questions and information to win the case. He also shares the story of the shocking cross-examination during the birthing case and how he successfully delivered the closing argument.
[53:04] Getting the jury to fight for you: During the closing argument, Michael tapped into his emotions and personal experience of having a daughter the same age as AJ, the baby in the birth defect trial. Michael connected with the jury — especially the parents who may empathize with AJ’s family.
[58:49] What it takes to be a managing lawyer: As a managing lawyer, Michael often comes in at the end of the case after others have worked up the case. In order to get great workup done by others, Michael focuses on the bigger picture, utilizes the unique skills of the firm’s lawyers, and makes himself accessible to younger lawyers.
[1:05:58] Bouncing back after a loss: For Michael, it’s easier to come back from a loss knowing that you did everything possible for your client. As long as you put everything out there and give it your best shot, you’ll feel more positive about the situation — even if the outcome isn’t what you wanted.
Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation
☑️ Follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram & LinkedIn.
☑️ Subscribe to Trial Lawyer Nation on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube.
In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.
Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.
