137 – How Michael Leizerman Won $18 million in a Tough Case

Before opening his own firm after graduating from law school in 2018, Tom Kherkher didn’t have Facebook or Instagram. “I was the guy everybody made fun of because I didn’t have social media,” he remembers.

Flash forward four years and Tom — or AttorneyTom, as he’s known online — is one of the most recognizable lawyers on the internet. He’s accumulated 500 million minutes of watch time on Facebook and 270 million views on YouTube. And as one of the first attorneys to take advantage of TikTok, he’s been able to funnel viewers toward his other content, which has generated cases for his firm.

But social media, in his opinion, isn’t always all it’s cracked up to be. It takes a lot of time and dedication to gain an audience, and even with one as big as Tom’s, social media isn’t generating hundreds of new referrals.

“I would be really skeptical of anybody who is directly making money off of you, if they’re selling you this social media product,” he says. “I do think it is going to get only better as younger people get in the workplace and are the ones who need lawyers, but slow and steady wins the race.”

So how do you gain a big social media following and keep them engaged? Which platforms generate the most success, and how can we get the most out of those platforms? Tune into this episode of Trial Lawyer Nation as Tom and host Michael Cowen talk through these topics — and reveal some social media secrets.

Featured Guest

Name: Tom Kherkher

About: Tom Kherkher is the founding attorney of The Kherkher Law Firm and an associate attorney of Kherkher Garcia. He is doing what he loves every day – fighting against injustice.

After graduating from law school and passing the Texas bar, Tom immediately founded his own law firm in Houston, Texas to fight for people and bring them justice. At The Kherkher Law Firm, Tom and his staff work tirelessly and passionately to recover damages for individuals who have suffered from the negligence of others. Tom Kherkher is licensed to practice law in the U.S. Southern District of Texas and all courts of the State of Texas and Louisiana.

Company: The Kherkher Law Firm, PLLC and Kherkher Garcia, LLP

Connect: LinkedIn | Twitter | YouTube | TikTok | Facebook | Instagram

Episode Highlights 

[01:16] The YouTube lawyer: Meet Tom Kherkher, one of the top attorneys in the social media game. As one of the most-watched lawyers online, Tom has attracted clients to his firm, but it’s not as easy as some people claim. 

[03:26] Straight outta law school: Before he even passed the bar exam, Tom had signed a lease on an office to start his own practice. He discusses why he took that risk and how he built his successful firm from scratch with the help of social media.

[08:27] Finding the sweet spot: How did Tom create a successful social media brand with millions of views? “Trial and error,” he says — and a surprising discovery about the value of longer-form YouTube content over TikTok. 

[15:08] ‘Edu-tainment’ focused: Want a loyal social media following? Stop focusing on promoting yourself and don’t expect anything in return from your followers, Tom explains. 

[19:33] What the algorithm wants: “At the end of the day, Facebook and YouTube — all they care about is making money,” Tom says. He reveals secrets to taking advantage of that business model and getting your videos recommended.

[25:12] Quantity vs. quality: Millions of views are great — but those rarely convert to cases or a loyal following. To find success, you need a healthy balance of both short-form and long-form content, says Tom. 

[30:59] The beauty of social: Which is better — pay-to-play social media or organic social media growth? Both can be effective, and both will cost you money or time to get a worthwhile return.

[36:33] One hour a week is not enough: Organic growth that makes you money can be achieved — but you have to put in the work, and hiring people doesn’t work as a shortcut, Tom explains. 

[40:56] Learn from influencers, not other lawyers: Tom explains what lawyers can learn about mindset by paying attention to young social media influencers like Mr. Beast.

[44:29] Breaking the fourth wall: This podcast follows a similar mindset as Tom’s on social media: it’s helped us build trust and get cases, but it’s taken a while to get there.

[48:48] ‘Not all it’s cracked up to be’: Tom signs off with a message to listeners: be skeptical of people who say they’re gaining hundreds of cases and making millions from social media.

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In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.

Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.

In this week’s episode, Michael Cowen and Malorie Peacock discuss the importance of accurately valuing personal injury or wrongful death cases.

They recommend lawyers form groups to discuss and share insights on case valuation, using a carefully curated form to identify critical factors influencing a case’s value.

The round table can also provide a more confident and persuasive stance when negotiating with insurance companies or at mediation. Michael and Malorie emphasize the importance of determining when a case is ripe for settlement and the need for sufficient information to be gathered before engaging in negotiations. They challenge the notion that sending a demand letter makes a lawyer look weak and highlight the importance of considering all relevant factors, such as medical bills, potential for future treatment, insurance coverage, and the likelihood of winning at trial.

Case valuation is an art that requires careful analysis and consideration of all available information. The attorneys also encourage lawyers to form mastermind groups to share ideas and perspectives on cases, improving their knowledge and skills.

Featured Guest

Name: Malorie J. Peacock

About: Malorie J. Peacock is a Partner at Cowen Rodriguez Peacock. She was born and raised in San Antonio, Texas and received her J.D. from the University of Houston Law Center. During her time with Cowen Rodriguez Peacock, Malorie has worked on numerous commercial vehicle, trucking, and wrongful death cases. Malorie brings close attention to detail, commitment to finding safety issues and areas of neglect, continued utilization of technology and cutting-edge visuals in cases, along with a sincere passion to help those who have been hurt, to each and every case.

Company: Cowen Rodriguez Peacock 

Connect: LinkedIn

Episode Highlights 

[01.11] Accurately valuing personal injury cases: The hosts emphasize the importance of accurately valuing personal injury cases to ensure that clients receive fair compensation for their injuries.

[06.12] Considering all relevant factors in case valuation: Correctly valuing a case requires considering all relevant factors, including liability, damages, insurance coverage, and potential jury verdicts

[08.11] The importance of gathering sufficient information: Engaging in settlement negotiations without adequate information can result in missed opportunities, undervaluing or overvaluing a case, and a less favorable settlement outcome

[11.07] Challenging the notion that sending a demand letter is weak: Sending a demand letter can be a powerful negotiation tool that can demonstrate a lawyer’s confidence in their case and their willingness to fight for their client’s rights

[20.23] The round table approach to case valuation: The round table allows for a more comprehensive analysis of a case and helps lawyers prepare a stronger negotiation strategy.

[30.41] Improving knowledge and skills through mastermind groups: The hosts encourage lawyers to form mastermind groups for improved knowledge and skills. They discuss the benefits of collaborating with other lawyers and provide tips for finding or creating a group. 

[32.39] Using a carefully curated form to identify critical factors: Using a carefully curated form to identify key factors can help lawyers systematically and objectively evaluate a case’s strengths and weaknesses, which can lead to a more accurate valuation.

[36.43] The benefits of sharing knowledge within the plaintiff’s bar: Plaintiff attorneys shouldn’t see each other as competitors but rather as colleagues who can collaborate and share knowledge to improve their skills and the quality of legal representation for their clients.

Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation

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In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.

Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.

When asked how he won a $66.6 million dollar verdict, Lee Hunt attributes much of the victory to the intelligence of the jury — and his ability to forge real, human relationships with his clients.

On this episode of Trial Lawyer Nation, host Michael Cowen talks about trial law with the founder of Hunt Law in Santa Fe, New Mexico. The two discuss Lee’s latest big victory, covering everything from his client’s injuries, liability, and the trust he placed in his jury. They also discuss Lee’s background and his passion for trial work. 

“I try very hard never to go, at the very least, more than a year without significant trials,” said Lee. “It is absolutely terrifying, trying a case where you know your client’s future life is at stake. It’s terrifying. But as long as you’re in the mode of it and haven’t been that far removed from it, it’s a fear you know how to deal with.”  

For Lee, the trial process is personal. Not only does he dedicate time and energy into every case, he also puts the same effort into knowing his clients on a personal level. He believes clients and lawyers should trust one another, and he credits that trust for much of his success over the course of his lengthy career.  

Featured Guest

Name: Lee Hunt

About: Lee Hunt is the founder and lead attorney at Hunt Law. He graduated from the University of Kentucky School of Law, where he received the Order of Coif award. For the past 20 years, Lee has proven himself time and again with a winning track of successful jury awards for injury victims. 

Almost above anything else, Lee stresses the value of the relationship between attorney and client. He believes that by the end of a case, the client and lawyer should trust each other, know each other, and genuinely care about each other. Lee wants to know his clients on a personal level and not just as another case number.

His reputation precedes him as a compassionate, caring lawyer, who offers his clients more than just top-notch legal council. He vows to stand with his clients every step of the way and won’t give up until he sees their trial through to the end.

Company: Hunt Law

Connect: LinkedIn  

Episode Highlights 

[02:06] An intro: Lee tells Michael and listeners some background on the big case he won in New Mexico, which involved a movie set, a production company, a moving crane, and a man pressured into making a life-altering decision.

[07:57] Negligence costs money: Lee discusses how the production team ignored warnings from local New Mexicans about the safest way for his client to move a crane up a mountain. 

[12:26] Relatability: One of his strategies with the jury was to make the case relatable for any blue collar worker who has been put in tough situations rather than focusing on the case’s specific location on a movie set.

[14:57] The jury: Lee describes the process of selecting the jury pool and the focus groups that were involved. 

[17:36] Comparative fault: From the jump, Lee wanted to really own his client’s culpability in the case, which ultimately played out in their favor. His client was found only 19% at fault.

[22:15] Damages: Lee breaks down how he came up with the different damage costs. 

[28:16] Trust the process: Whether to give the jury an exact number in payouts or leave it up to them ultimately comes down to each individual case.

[33:26] Personalization: Lee really puts the time and effort into getting to know his clients, as well as their families. He spent time with his client’s family in California leading up to the case and discussed their worries and concerns. 

[37:50] Zoom vs IRL: Lee discusses how New Mexico’s COVID protocols impact trials and how witnesses are perceived by the jury via Zoom versus in person. 

[46:53] In his nature: Having grown up an athlete and continuing to be an avid runner, Lee attributes some of his trial success to his natural competitiveness and ability to go the distance.

Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation

☑️ Follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram & LinkedIn.

☑️ Subscribe to Trial Lawyer Nation on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and YouTube.

In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.

Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.