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Every month, our podcast receives questions from our listeners (which we love by the way, keep them coming) and we take the time to respond to each individually. After 8 months of being on the air, we thought it might be fun and valuable to dedicate an episode to reflect and respond to some of these questions in a new series we’re calling “TLN Table Talk.” In this episode of Trial Lawyer Nation, sought-after trial lawyer and fellow partner at Cowen | Rodriguez | Peacock, Malorie Peacock, flips the script and puts Michael in the “hot seat” for an open discussion to answers questions from our listeners.
Malorie digs right in with a note from a listener that asks – “Knowing that we all need to try more cases to get better, and sometimes you just can’t get to trial for one reason or another, how do you practice for the big moment of going to trial?” Michael reveals how he personally prepares for each trial and his approach toward different types of cases and jurors, along with his thoughts on prepared scripts. He goes on to share outstanding insights about planning and practicing for voir dire, where you don’t know what the jury panel is going to say; and allowing the truth to be acknowledged without letting it throw you off your intended path. Interestingly enough, Michael’s use of pizza and beer to get a deeper understanding of a case, while simple in practice, can also be incredibly useful in the courtroom. Michael also opens up about his rekindled respect for inclusive voir dire with a recent example of a case that turned a $125k offer into a $1.25M verdict, seemingly built in voir dire, before any evidence was ever discussed.
From there, Malorie talks with Michael about the firm’s strategy in trying most cases in pairs and asks him why he believes it’s better. His answer is perhaps not what you might expect, and the discussion shifts toward courtroom perceptions. Michael and Malorie both agree that every perception matters: from how you dress, to how you interact with your staff, to how people see you drive away in the parking lot. The same goes for your client too! Both also agree that understanding visual communication is extremely important as a trial lawyer.
Trial technology seems to be a hot topic for our listeners with all kinds of questions around what types we use, how we utilize them, and the thoughts around why we use them (or not). Michael is quick to point out that we all need to remember the purpose of the tech and the need to tailor the tech to the case, so you don’t look too slick when the other side brings in a manila folder and a legal pad. He does recommend that if the courtroom, and your budget, allows, there are some specific pieces of technology that are far better in his opinion in helping jurors understand pieces of evidence, so long as you are comfortable with it and prepared to proceed when it doesn’t work.
Michael and Malorie close the conversation in talking through strategies on figuring out how much money to ask a jury for and how to actually ask for it, the details of which you’ll have to listen to learn. Trial Lawyer Nation plans to do more “Table Talks” in the future as this podcast has always been about inclusive learning for all in our industry, which includes learning from each other! Please keep submitting your questions, comments, and topic suggestions to podcast@triallawyernation.com; and be sure to like, share, and subscribe to get the latest from the Trial Lawyer Nation podcast!
For more information about Michael Cowen, go here.
For more information about Malorie Peacock, go here.
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112 – Krystal Cantu-Cuate – The Healing Journey: Facing Traumas and Truths
On this special episode of Trial Lawyer Nation, Michael welcomes his favorite client of all time, Krystal Cantu-Cuate. Like many clients, Michael was introduced to Krystal under difficult circumstances. Krystal was traveling a car that experienced a tire blowout. The blowout resulted in a tragic accident, and the amputation of Kyrstal’s right arm. As is often the case, this was only the beginning of a long and emotional journey.
When she first saw her family members gathered in the hospital waiting room, they were crying and expressing fear and apprehension about her future. In that moment, Krystal decided she was going to be strong for them and defy their fears and worries.
With the driving force to be strong for her family and take control of her situation, Krystal began working tirelessly to achieve and overcome. Within a month of her accident, Krystal was back in the gym resuming her CrossFit training.
Behind that incredible tenacity the world saw, a much darker story was playing out. Krystal wasn’t okay. The trauma was silently wearing on her. She admits she was in denial, repressing difficult thoughts, emotions, and feelings about the accident. And, because she was lacking the tools and knowledge to process the trauma she went through, inner struggle, pain, and repressed emotions became her normal. As litigation wore on, and maintaining the Superwoman exterior became more difficult, Krystal’s mental health challenges began to consume her.
While the journey has more bumps than Krystal was willing to admit to herself in the early years, this story has a happy ending. With Michael’s help, Krystal admitted to herself that is was okay not to be okay, made her mental health a priority, and sought out the support she needed to continue her healing journey.
Join us on this new episode of Trial Lawyer Nation for this emotional story of trauma, bravery, hard truths, and healing with guest Krystal Cantu-Cuate, an ex-CrossFit adaptive athlete and keynote speaker on mental health.
Featured Guest
Name: Krystal Cantu-Cuate
About: Krystal Cantu-Cuate is an ex-CrossFit adaptive athlete, keynote speaker on mental health, part-time bridal stylist, mother, and wife. After a tragic car accident in 2013 that resulted in the amputation of her right arm, Krystal went on to live her life in the face of adversity. Becoming one of the first competitive CrossFit adaptive athletes, Krystal traveled all over the US competing — and inspiring thousands while doing so. In 2016, she gave birth to her son, Joaquin, and left her competitive career. In 2021, Krystal was faced with her biggest challenge yet: mental health. After a traumatic experience with crippling anxiety, Krystal was faced with challenges that called for uncomfortable conversations. Krystal is now a keynote speaker on mental health and its importance. She continues using her own personal experiences to help others who may be struggling.
Connect: LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook
Key Points
Top takeaways from this episode
- It’s okay to ask for help. Asking for help doesn’t make you weak — it actually shows how strong you are. Whether you have a case in litigation or you’re fighting inner battles, it’s important to seek help. Lawyers and experts in the field can guide you through the litigation process and ease your worries. Close friends and family can give you the support needed to work through personal struggles. No matter your circumstance, always remember that you don’t have to go through it alone.
- A healing journey requires honesty and bravery. Healing is never easy, and it’s not a linear process. You have your ups, your downs, and everything in between. But what will get you through is honesty and bravery. You must be honest with yourself about where you are and what you need to start healing. Once you understand this, you need the courage to take on whatever challenge comes your way.
- Trust yourself. Nobody knows you better than yourself, although it’s easy to forget sometimes. In her darkest days, Krystal’s husband, Daniel, reminded her, “No matter what’s happening in your head right now, don’t forget — don’t forget who you are… Just trust yourself.” Trusting yourself and your strength can help keep you out of a downward spiral.
Episode Highlights
[02:06] The tragic story that changed everything: Krystal Cantu-Cuate shares the story of her car accident in 2013 that resulted in the amputation of her arm (and the beginning of her work with Michael Cowen).
[04:48] The litigation process: Krystal recounts what the litigation process was like, the harsh questions she faced in the deposition room, and what it was like dealing with foreign language and legalese documents.
[07:39] Knowing your strengths: Despite the severity of the situation, Krystal trusted in Michael, continued her CrossFit training as a form of therapy, and stuck to her strengths. What drove her to take on this superwoman persona?
[13:45] Dealing with the difficulties of the case: Krystal opens up about her fears of facing the memories during the witness preparation.
[16:18] Using CrossFit to push through: Krystal couldn’t fathom someone telling her she couldn’t do something — so she continued her CrossFit training. She doesn’t regret doing CrossFit because it kept her body healthy and her mind preoccupied.
[20:07] Struggling behind closed doors: Despite her fierce positivity, Krystal lost a lot of confidence in herself and faced a ton of anxiety after the accident.
[22:28] Finding a breakthrough: Krystal shares what finally led her to a breakthrough after a traumatic anxiety spiral. From suicidal thoughts to medication, Krystal faced a turning point that led to her healing journey.
[33:15] Using therapy in your healing journey: Michael and Krystal discuss their experiences seeing a therapist and why you have to be courageous to get honest. They also dive into the stigma of therapy and their thoughts on removing the stigma.
[35:31] The truth about intrusive thoughts: Krystal talks about naming her suicidal thoughts, telling her family about them, and why suicidal and intrusive thoughts are more common than you’d think.
[41:43] Not staying quiet: Instead of holding in her thoughts, feelings, and pain, Krystal speaks up. Whether it’s to her husband or therapist, Krystal shares what she’s feeling — despite how uncomfortable it can be.
[44:39] Receiving support: Krystal shares how her husband, Daniel, was an essential part of her healing.
[47:45] Krystal’s speaking initiatives: How is Krystal using her speaking to help others going through a similar situation? She’s sharing all of the details.
[51:08] Leading through tough situations: Krystal shares advice for attorneys on how to companion people through their difficult journeys.
Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation
☑️ Follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram & LinkedIn.
☑️ Subscribe to Trial Lawyer Nation on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube.
In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.
Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.
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125 – Jessica Mogill – Building a World Class Law Firm Culture
Helping attorneys create great company culture is what motivates Jessica Mogill to give her best every day. As Head of Coaching Strategy at Crisp, the nation’s leading law firm growth company, Jessica helps attorneys define and improve their culture.
“Culture is really what drives the experience. And it drives the emotions that you feel,” Jessica says. “And I think that when you have team members who are part of a culture and part of a mission and a vision, your clients do feel that, your referral partners feel that, and they know that there’s something special about this place.”
Jessica offers advice on how to start defining your core values, creating KPIs that are measurable, and onboarding new team members to make them part of your team culture.
She also reflects on some lackluster onboarding experiences that she experienced early on in her career and how those initial interactions soured her perception of those companies from the very beginning.
For professionals working on trucking or company vehicle cases, host Michael Cowen closes the episode with a reminder that he is hosting the upcoming Big Rig Boot Camp on June 16th in San Antonio, Texas.
Featured Guest
Name: Jessica Mogill
About: Jessica Mogill is Head of Coaching Strategy at Crisp, the nation’s premiere law firm growth company. On paper, Jessica is an industrial engineer and got started in her career as an engineer in steel-toed boots and a hard hat.
When the time came for a career shift, she entered Crisp on the ground floor back in 2014. While she originally only planned to advise Crisp for 30 days, almost 10 years later, she’s helped Crisp grow to unimaginable heights. Through her experience growing Crisp, Jessica has developed a unique set of leadership and strategic skills, which she now translates into guidance not only for the internal team but also for Crisp Coach clients.
As the mastermind behind the content and experience of the industry-leading Crisp Coach program, Jessica keeps a pulse on the challenges, opportunities, and knowledge gaps facing the leaders of the nation’s top law firms — and delivers solutions that transform.
Company: Crisp
Connect: LinkedIn
Key Points
Top takeaways from this episode
- Culture starts with core values. Defining your core values is the basis to defining your company culture. It’s also normal for core values to change over time as a company grows or needs different things. Ideally, review your core values annually to confirm they still work for the business.
- Invest in your team. Take a 360 degree view of investing in your team. This can include lunch and learns, training, and social events. At Crisp, there is a culture committee who is responsible for regularly planning events for the team in support of core values.
- Assessments can improve the hiring process. Hiring assessments can be used to enhance your hiring process and align candidates with the work that is best suited for their strengths. Examples of assessments used at Crisp are Kolbe, PRINT, and Wonderlic assessments.
- Setting KPIs helps build high performing firms. KPIs let attorneys objectively review performance. A good KPI measures the root issue that needs to be addressed. Using software for tracking and reporting can keep you accountable but you can start with a simple spreadsheet if you don’t currently have software in place.
Episode Highlights
[05:53] Culture is how stuff gets done: Jessica distills down the definition of culture to be how work gets done — what the standards are, what you’ll tolerate, and what is and is not acceptable at your firm.
[08:19] Deciding on your culture: Jessica believes that every company will have a different culture based on its unique values.
[11:05] Start with core values: Jessica recommends starting with core values when defining your culture. She explains that core values are what you endorse versus what you tolerate.
[14:27] Go back and revisit core values regularly: At Crisp, Jessica reviews the company’s core values on a quarterly basis to ensure they’re still true. At a minimum, she recommends reviewing core values on an annual basis.
[19:33] Finding the right people is the hardest thing: Jessica speaks to how the recruitment process works at Crisp.
[29:42] Data creates high-performing firms: Jessica explains that key performance indicators (KPIs) will make you more objective in evaluating performance — you either hit the target or you don’t.
[36:57] Onboarding is overlooked and undervalued: Jessica walks us through how she approaches approving new positions and onboarding new team members at Crisp to give them the best possible experience.
[40:53] Volunteers, not hostages: Jessica shares the different questions she asks to determine if a person is the right player to have on her team. If your company has outgrown a team member, you need to start with a candid conversation.
[46:00] Communicate with context: Jessica describes how a new team member is essentially jumping on a moving train and lacks the institutional knowledge that other team members have built over time. It’s important to slow down and add context to get the best results.
[57:26] Big Rig Boot Camp: Michael reminds listeners that the Big Rig Boot Camp is coming up on June 16th in San Antonio, Texas.
Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation
☑️ Follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram & LinkedIn.
☑️ Subscribe to Trial Lawyer Nation on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and YouTube.
In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.
Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.
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116 – Michael Bonamarte – What Does It Take to Win a $20 Million Verdict?
Michael Bonamarte wasn’t always set on being a trial lawyer. In college, he started out on a pre-med track, eventually discovering a passion for the law. Now, he runs a successful firm with 20 years under his belt — and a $20 million verdict. What does it take to reach this level of success?
Throughout his career, Michael soaked up knowledge from the greats in his industry. From mentors and partners to books and other educational tools, Michael made sure he was learning everything he could so that he could go to bat for his clients. Because of this passion and drive, Michael won a plethora of large cases.
One of these large cases received a successful $20 million verdict. This multimillion-dollar case covered a difficult birthing complication, where the baby, AJ, was diagnosed with fetal growth restriction at 40 weeks. Significant changes in the fetal heart rate strips were not brought to the attending doctor’s attention, and ultimately, AJ suffered brain damage. Although he should live a regular life expectancy, AJ’s neurological function is limited and he will likely need custodial care for the rest of his life.
Due to the technicalities of the case, Michael knew he needed support from great experts. With the help of both law firm partners and medical experts, Michael was able to solidify the win. The medical experts could explain the points that matter and simplify complex terms for the jury. The defense, who argued that fetal growth restriction was caused by a genetic growth issue, didn’t have the necessary experts to strengthen their argument, which contributed to Michael and his team’s big win.
Throughout his career, Michael has had plenty of multimillion-dollar wins. Now, as a managing partner of his firm, Michael is helping other lawyers find that same success. By investing in the firm, making himself accessible to younger lawyers, and sharing all of his insight and knowledge, Michael is helping shape the next generation of lawyers winning million-dollar verdicts.
In episode 116, Michael Cowen is in conversation with Michael Bonamarte, Managing Partner at Levin & Perconti, to get all of the details on the $20 million verdict. Michael walks through the big case, from the opening statement and jury selection to the closing arguments and ultimate win. On this insightful episode of Trial Lawyer Nation, Michael also discusses what it’s like running a law firm, how he built up his skills early in his career, and the best ways to bounce back from a loss.
Featured Guest
Name: Michael Bonamarte
About: Michael Bonamarte, IV is a nationally recognized trial attorney who has achieved outstanding results in a number of high-profile nursing home, wrongful death, birth injury, and medical malpractice cases. He is committed to protecting and vindicating the rights of people who have been injured due to systemic flaws and corporations choosing profits over people. Michael is currently a Managing Partner at Levin & Perconti law firm in Chicago, Illinois.
Company: Levin & Perconti
Connect: Email | 312-516-1129
Key Points
Top takeaways from this episode
- You have to be a sponge to develop your skills as a trial lawyer. Michael Bonamarte has a passion for representing people who have been wronged. But passion doesn’t always mean you have the skills to succeed. So how do you develop your skills? According to Michael, you have to be a sponge and soak up all of the insight from other lawyers, mentors, and resources in your field.
- A strong argument requires the right experts. Especially if you’re working on a technical case, you need the right experts to guide you through complex terms and concepts. Additionally, experts serve as credible sources to support your argument during trial.
- Give the case your all. No matter how great of a lawyer you are, you won’t win every case. In order to bounce back from the losses, it’s important that you give every case your all. When you know that you did everything you could for a client, a loss is somewhat easier to bear.
Episode Highlights
[02:23] The beginning of an outstanding law career: Michael Bonamarte talks about his journey in the field of law and his work at Levin & Perconti.
[06:23] Developing trial skills: Michael shares how he went from a pre-med path in college to becoming a successful trial lawyer. He also discusses the people who have influenced his law career and how he stays educated.
[08:45] The $20 million verdict: Michael gets into the details of a difficult birthing case, sharing the complications of the birth and why it was such a big case.
[18:44] The defense of the case: According to Michael, there was an overwhelming number of expert witnesses for the case. But the defense, who argued that fetal growth restriction was caused by a genetic growth issue in this case, didn’t have the necessary experts to strengthen their argument.
[22:33] Michael’s strategy for winning the case: Because the case was extremely technical, Michael attributes much of his success to his partners and medical experts. These experts could simplify things for the jury, explain the relevant case points, and ensure that all information was accurate.
[27:05] The jury selection: Michael walks through the jury selection process specific to the case, how he set up a foundation of mutual respect, and how he exposed bias through a lighthearted example (deep dish or thin crust pizza?).
[36:06] The opening statement: Michael’s partner, Margaret, did the opening statement, and they chose to start off with the base premise of a healthy birth. They presented what should happen during a healthy birth, and then they presented plan B — what happens when that first scenario isn’t possible.
[44:47] Why presentation matters: Michael talks about a lung cancer case with a 40-year smoker and how he presented questions and information to win the case. He also shares the story of the shocking cross-examination during the birthing case and how he successfully delivered the closing argument.
[53:04] Getting the jury to fight for you: During the closing argument, Michael tapped into his emotions and personal experience of having a daughter the same age as AJ, the baby in the birth defect trial. Michael connected with the jury — especially the parents who may empathize with AJ’s family.
[58:49] What it takes to be a managing lawyer: As a managing lawyer, Michael often comes in at the end of the case after others have worked up the case. In order to get great workup done by others, Michael focuses on the bigger picture, utilizes the unique skills of the firm’s lawyers, and makes himself accessible to younger lawyers.
[1:05:58] Bouncing back after a loss: For Michael, it’s easier to come back from a loss knowing that you did everything possible for your client. As long as you put everything out there and give it your best shot, you’ll feel more positive about the situation — even if the outcome isn’t what you wanted.
Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation
☑️ Follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram & LinkedIn.
☑️ Subscribe to Trial Lawyer Nation on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube.
In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.
Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.
