Episode

Focus groups can be a pertinent tool for complicated cases to get a sense of how ordinary people think about a case.

Malorie J. Peacock, Partner at Cowen Rodriguez Peacock, uses focus groups to gain an outside perspective on her cases.

“Sometimes you get so wrapped up in the minutiae of your case or some technical details, or you’ve learned the case so well that you think it’s obvious to everybody else,” she explains. “Having that outside perspective is a way to get feedback to make sure you’re not just buying your own bullshit.”

Host Michael Cowen joins in on the discussion with Malorie who recently returned from hosting a focus group for one of her upcoming cases. They share what they’ve learned about focus groups, why you should consider using them in your own cases, how to facilitate them, what you gain from them, and most importantly, how to learn from them to inform your cases.

The episode provides examples of how to use both concept and adversarial focus groups to achieve your objectives, sharing real-life case studies that both Michael and Malorie have seen play out first-hand.

Featured Guest

Name: Malorie J. Peacock

About: Malorie J. Peacock is Partner at Cowen Rodriguez Peacock. She was born and raised in San Antonio, Texas, and received her JD from the University of Houston Law Center. During her time with Cowen Rodriguez Peacock, Malorie has worked on numerous commercial vehicle, trucking, and wrongful death cases. Malorie brings close attention to detail, commitment to finding safety issues and areas of neglect, continued utilization of technology and cutting-edge visuals in cases, along with a sincere passion to help those who have been hurt, to each and every case.

Firm: Cowen Rodriguez Peacock 

Connect: LinkedIn

Episode Highlights 

[02:18] Focus groups, defined: Malorie explains that a focus group is simply a group of people who are not associated with your case that allow you to test your strategy and get feedback. 

[05:29] Different ways to test: There are many different ways to employ focus groups to add value to your case. Malorie advises the most important thing is knowing the purpose of the focus group.

[09:38] Bringing out your competitive nature: Michael talks about how adversarial focus groups can help lawyers rehearse for their cases ahead of time while channeling their competitive sides.

[13:41] Focus groups are not predictive of the numbers: Malorie reviews all the different variables that can change between a focus group and a court case that affect the numbers in the final outcome.

[15:21] Expect the unexpected: Michael speaks to how certain rulings from judges or specific facts being presented can have a big impact on how a case proceeds. 

[21:18] Emotional attachments can get in the way: Michael points out that if you’re feeling emotional about a case and can’t run the focus group from a neutral perspective it might be better to hire a third party facilitator. 

[24:35] How to find people to participate: Several different channels can be used to recruit people for focus groups. 

[25:32] The right way to use Facebook ads: Michael provides an overview on how to properly use Facebook ads to recruit participants while maintaining neutrality in the process. 

[35:10] To record or not to record?: Michael and Malorie debate how they prefer to record and document focus groups along with the benefits of each method. 

[45:48] Choosing the right people to present: Malorie advises on how to balance the skills and likeability of two people if you’re holding an adversarial focus group to get good information. 

[53:41] Big Rig Boot Camp: Michael reminds listeners that registration is open for the Big Rig Boot Camp on June 16th in San Antonio, TX.

Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation

☑️ Follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram & LinkedIn.

☑️ Subscribe to Trial Lawyer Nation on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and YouTube.

In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.

Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.

Before opening his own firm after graduating from law school in 2018, Tom Kherkher didn’t have Facebook or Instagram. “I was the guy everybody made fun of because I didn’t have social media,” he remembers.

Flash forward four years and Tom — or AttorneyTom, as he’s known online — is one of the most recognizable lawyers on the internet. He’s accumulated 500 million minutes of watch time on Facebook and 270 million views on YouTube. And as one of the first attorneys to take advantage of TikTok, he’s been able to funnel viewers toward his other content, which has generated cases for his firm.

But social media, in his opinion, isn’t always all it’s cracked up to be. It takes a lot of time and dedication to gain an audience, and even with one as big as Tom’s, social media isn’t generating hundreds of new referrals.

“I would be really skeptical of anybody who is directly making money off of you, if they’re selling you this social media product,” he says. “I do think it is going to get only better as younger people get in the workplace and are the ones who need lawyers, but slow and steady wins the race.”

So how do you gain a big social media following and keep them engaged? Which platforms generate the most success, and how can we get the most out of those platforms? Tune into this episode of Trial Lawyer Nation as Tom and host Michael Cowen talk through these topics — and reveal some social media secrets.

Featured Guest

Name: Tom Kherkher

About: Tom Kherkher is the founding attorney of The Kherkher Law Firm and an associate attorney of Kherkher Garcia. He is doing what he loves every day – fighting against injustice.

After graduating from law school and passing the Texas bar, Tom immediately founded his own law firm in Houston, Texas to fight for people and bring them justice. At The Kherkher Law Firm, Tom and his staff work tirelessly and passionately to recover damages for individuals who have suffered from the negligence of others. Tom Kherkher is licensed to practice law in the U.S. Southern District of Texas and all courts of the State of Texas and Louisiana.

Company: The Kherkher Law Firm, PLLC and Kherkher Garcia, LLP

Connect: LinkedIn | Twitter | YouTube | TikTok | Facebook | Instagram

Episode Highlights 

[01:16] The YouTube lawyer: Meet Tom Kherkher, one of the top attorneys in the social media game. As one of the most-watched lawyers online, Tom has attracted clients to his firm, but it’s not as easy as some people claim. 

[03:26] Straight outta law school: Before he even passed the bar exam, Tom had signed a lease on an office to start his own practice. He discusses why he took that risk and how he built his successful firm from scratch with the help of social media.

[08:27] Finding the sweet spot: How did Tom create a successful social media brand with millions of views? “Trial and error,” he says — and a surprising discovery about the value of longer-form YouTube content over TikTok. 

[15:08] ‘Edu-tainment’ focused: Want a loyal social media following? Stop focusing on promoting yourself and don’t expect anything in return from your followers, Tom explains. 

[19:33] What the algorithm wants: “At the end of the day, Facebook and YouTube — all they care about is making money,” Tom says. He reveals secrets to taking advantage of that business model and getting your videos recommended.

[25:12] Quantity vs. quality: Millions of views are great — but those rarely convert to cases or a loyal following. To find success, you need a healthy balance of both short-form and long-form content, says Tom. 

[30:59] The beauty of social: Which is better — pay-to-play social media or organic social media growth? Both can be effective, and both will cost you money or time to get a worthwhile return.

[36:33] One hour a week is not enough: Organic growth that makes you money can be achieved — but you have to put in the work, and hiring people doesn’t work as a shortcut, Tom explains. 

[40:56] Learn from influencers, not other lawyers: Tom explains what lawyers can learn about mindset by paying attention to young social media influencers like Mr. Beast.

[44:29] Breaking the fourth wall: This podcast follows a similar mindset as Tom’s on social media: it’s helped us build trust and get cases, but it’s taken a while to get there.

[48:48] ‘Not all it’s cracked up to be’: Tom signs off with a message to listeners: be skeptical of people who say they’re gaining hundreds of cases and making millions from social media.

Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation

☑️ Follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram & LinkedIn.

☑️ Subscribe to Trial Lawyer Nation on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and YouTube.

In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.

Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.

A new year is an excellent opportunity to reflect on your progress and set or reassess goals. That’s the easy part. The challenge comes when your motivation wanes as the year wears on. How does a trial lawyer, with too many tasks to juggle already, set (and stick to) a lofty set of personal and professional goals?

Michael Cowen and Malorie Peacock share their personal and professional goals for 2023, the challenges of sticking to intentions, and what they’re excited about for Cowen Rodriguez Peacock in the new year.

They also remind listeners that achieving goals is a continuous journey. Stumbling isn’t a reason to give up on your goals. Struggling is normal, it’s those that keep pushing and stay ready for the fight that find success.

Join Michael and Malorie for more tips and inspiration for setting achievable goals in 2023, finding balance between your personal and professional lives, and pushing through even when it gets hard. 

Featured Guest

Name: Malorie J. Peacock

About: Malorie J. Peacock is a Partner at Cowen Rodriguez Peacock. She was born and raised in San Antonio, Texas and received her J.D. from the University of Houston Law Center. During her time with Cowen Rodriguez Peacock, Malorie has worked on numerous commercial vehicle, trucking, and wrongful death cases. Malorie brings close attention to detail, commitment to finding safety issues and areas of neglect, continued utilization of technology and cutting-edge visuals in cases, along with a sincere passion to help those who have been hurt, to each and every case.

Company: Cowen Rodriguez Peacock 

Connect: LinkedIn 

Episode Highlights 

[01:47] Looking forward to a new year: Michael and Malorie reflect on 2022 and share their enthusiasm for 2023.

[03:50] Setting and achieving personal goals: Michael discusses his personal goals for 2023 and why he believes everyone should set personal goals. He also reflects on the challenges he’s faced in sticking to his intentions.

[08:35] Career-related goals for 2023: Sharing his trial goals, Michael is ready to “get in there and pick some juries and start fighting and hopefully get some verdicts.” Additionally, he plans to continue helping lawyers develop their trial skills, invest more in his New Mexico firm, Begum & Cowen, and focus on the marketing efforts at Cowen Rodriguez Peacock.

[11:17] Finding balance: Last year, Malorie focused on balancing her roles as a new mom and a trial lawyer. This year, “my bigger focus is going to be on making sure that I’m keeping better control of my calendars, that I don’t have back to back weeks when I’m out of town and away from my kid.”

[13:49] Achieving freedom in your busy schedule: Malorie and Michael talk about why it’s essential to develop your people and relinquish some control in order to gain freedom in your schedule.

[20:07] On developing trial skills: From a supportive firm to trial and error, Malorie shares her strategies for developing trial skills over the past 10 years. Michael also contributes his thoughts on finding success through your own style and strategy.

[24:42] Imperfection isn’t the end of the world: lawyers tend to catastrophize situations and worry that they’ll lose a case if they don’t execute the plan flawlessly. Michael reminds listeners that jurors decide cases on major principles or themes — not on minor mistakes.

[26:22] Always be prepared for the fight: “Even the people that have beaten me in trial, they end up paying me more the next time because it was not a fun ride for them. They know that they just got lucky that day or just the facts were on their side that day.”

Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation

☑️ Follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram & LinkedIn.

☑️ Subscribe to Trial Lawyer Nation on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and YouTube.

In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.

Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.

A Trial Lawyer Nation listener since his Defense days, Ben Newman joins the podcast today to discuss his recent $1,076,000 verdict in Collin County, Texas.

At first blush, the facts of this case are problematic. Stemming from a spine injury the plaintiff suffered in a collision at an intersection, the case faced hurdles including, a traditionally conservative venue, a dispute over which party had a green light, an “invisible” injury, minimal therapy and injections, medical expenses of only $45,000, and a defendant that was an individual, not a faceless insurance company or corporate defendant.

Ben credits much of his success in this case to standing on the shoulders of legendary trial lawyers such as Joe Fried, Keith Mitnik, David Ball, and other Trial Lawyer Nation guests. “[The Trial Lawyer Nation] podcast is really what started me down this road of tracking down all of these resources to help me develop my trial technique.”

Ben says he consumed every podcast, video, book, and resource he could find on trial skills and trying cases. “Everything that I do in the courtroom can be traced back to something that I’ve read or something that I’ve seen.”

Join Michael Cowen and Ben Newman as they explore Ben’s incredible verdict and uncover the tools, tactics, and trial skills Ben employed to turn a $50,000 pre-trial offer into more than one million dollars for his client.

Featured Guest

Name: Ben Newman

About: Ben is a civil trial lawyer. He handles a wide range of cases in state and federal courts throughout Texas. For Ben, trial work is not just his profession, it’s an all-consuming passion. He spends countless hours learning the latest trial techniques. And other attorneys frequently hire Ben late in their cases to assist in taking them to trial.

Ben was recognized in Texas Monthly and Thomson Reuters as a Super Lawyer Rising Star. And he’s a lifetime member of the Million Dollar Advocate Forum – a group limited to trial attorneys who have won million-dollar verdicts, awards, and settlements.

Firm: Ben Newman Attorney at Law, PLLC

Connect: LinkedIn | 361-438-1073 | Email

Episode Highlights 

[02:46] A passion for trial: Ben Newman discusses his background, his passion for trying cases, and why he made the jump from defense to plaintiff’s work.

[05:39] Cultivating referral sources (and support): Ben shares how he got support from other firms and attorneys after hanging his shingle and was able to begin generating referrals quickly.

[09:54]: Learning the craft of a trial lawyer: Searching for valuable information to listen to during his commute, Ben discovered the Trial Lawyer Nation podcast. He listened to every episode and began digging into the resources Michael and his guest provided.

[14:53] The $1,076,000 verdict: Ben discusses the details of this case, addresses the unique challenges he faced, and share how one specific fact sold the jury.

[24:23] Calling the first witness: How he learned from David Ball to call the witness that can confirm the most facts from your opening statement. This way, you’re keeping the jury on track, sticking to your promises, and doing it quickly.

[29:50] Framing damages in the opening statement: How Ben focused on the invisible injuries, used an analogy from David Ball, and the per diem damage model.

[36:17] The nuances of the trial: The important role lay witnesses played, trusting the jury to make an unbiased decision, detailing harms and losses, and sending the case to the jury.

[43:42] Cutting against the stereotypes of injury attorneys: People expect injury attorneys to come to trial aggressive and ready to fight. Flipping the narrative, Ben made a point to be polite and positive to everyone in the courtroom — including the defense lawyers. 

[46:25] What’s next for Ben: From trial settings to parachuting in on cases, Ben has a list of things on his agenda. Overall, he’s continuing to learn, improve, and try as many cases as he can.

Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation

☑️ Follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram & LinkedIn.

☑️ Subscribe to Trial Lawyer Nation on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and YouTube.

In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.

Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.

Odds are, growing a law firm wasn’t built into your law school’s curriculum. You may be a fantastic lawyer, you may start a top-notch small firm, but if you’re setting out to scale what you’ve built then you will find a whole new set of challenges to tackle.

If you’re contemplating growing your firm or in the midst of the process, this episode is for you. 

In episode 120, Michael Cowen is joined by Malorie Peacock, his fellow Partner & Trial Lawyer at Cowen, Rodriguez and Peacock PC about how to grow a law firm. On this episode of Trial Lawyer Nation, Michael and Malorie outline the mindset needed to start and grow a law firm, the pains and joys of scaling your firm from solo to the next stage, how navigate working with a consultant, how to manage and work with your team, tips on marketing efforts, and much more.

Featured Guest

Name: Malorie Peacock

About:  Malorie J. Peacock is a Partner at Cowen Rodriguez Peacock. She was born and raised in San Antonio, Texas and received her J.D. from the University of Houston Law Center. During her time with Cowen Rodriguez Peacock, Malorie has worked on numerous commercial vehicle, trucking, and wrongful death cases. Malorie brings close attention to detail, commitment to finding safety issues and areas of neglect, continued utilization of technology and cutting-edge visuals in cases, along with a sincere passion to help those who have been hurt, to each and every case.

Company: Partner And Trial Lawyer, Cowen | Rodriguez | Peacock PC

Connect: Linkedin

Episode Highlights 

[03:01] Not Every Attorney Try To Have A Bigger Firm: Malorie reveals that it’s not the best fit for everyone to have a large firm. Solo firms and small firms are great options depending on your career goals. 

[09:15] Creating Systems Of Accountability In Your Business: As you are looking to manage your business health, also gauge your personal and team accountability. 

[13:05] You have to learn to give up control over certain things as your firm grows: How Michael and Sonia have kept up with their team’s needs with a changing job market.

[26:49] Managing your team, especially with new lawyers: When working with a team, learning to adjust behaviors and expectations is imperative for a healthy team culture.

[38:09] How to balance being an exceptional lawyer with an exceptional law practice: Although your time is eaten up by running a law firm business, there are many methods and practices that you can apply to balance the law firm with practicing law yourself.

[42:24] Best practices for coaching team members: It can be difficult telling a team member you don’t like what they do, but by using radical candor you can help a team member be better for them and for the rest of the team. 

[40:32] Hiring for the things you don’t want to do: One of the keys to balance is to hire a great team to handle the business side of a law firm so you can focus on the practice side.

Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation

☑️ Follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram & LinkedIn.

☑️ Subscribe to Trial Lawyer Nation on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube.

In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.

Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.