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In this episode of Trial Lawyer Nation, Michael Cowen sits down with Ohio attorney, Andy Young, who like Michael, specializes in trucking cases.
Andy’s journey over the past 20 years of practicing law and ultimately specializing in trucking cases started by accident when his hobby for rehabbing trucks, as well as starting a trucking company, turned out to be more valuable than he expected where he was being asked to speak at various trucking litigation groups. Essentially his passion for “anything on wheels” and his upbringing around big equipment propelled him toward the industry as well. He goes on to establish upfront that he indeed does not hate the trucking industry as some might conclude by having become a trucking attorney. Andy cares deeply for the truck drivers as well as the component of the industry that treats the drivers well while also explaining in great detail the parts of the industry he does not care for, which abuses the drivers and stokes safety issues all in the name of profits. He goes on to say that everything he does “ultimately is in favor of safety and in favor of the truck drivers too.”
Beyond filing lawsuits to try and improve the trucking industry, Andy is also involved in several advocacy efforts having originally become involved through some articles he had written and published back in 2011 on underride crashes, which have evolved all the way through giving testimony to Congress on the issue. He talks through some of the efforts that he’s been a part of in shining a light on the issues that surround truck crashes, specifically underride guards and rear guards, where the industry has made significant strides to reduce fatalities from crashes involving underrides in Europe, but continue to lack in the United States. While Andy has started to see the needle move a little bit in regards to instituting safety features that would prevent such fatalities, he also sees the trailer manufactures resist the urge to make their products safer while using federal regulations as a scapegoat for not making these life-saving improvements. This transitions into Andy sharing how helpful it can be for the families who have lost a family member to a truck crash to become active in safety advocacy as a way to give them some purpose to their loss.
Michael asks Andy, with his unique perspective as a truck driver and running a trucking company, what he’s learned to make him a better trucking lawyer. Undoubtedly, Andy refers to his time behind the wheel as being the most valuable and suggests that those who are looking to be great trucking lawyers do what Michael Cowen did and go to truck driving school to get a more intimate understanding of what truck drivers experience as well as a better understanding of what it’s like to maneuver such large pieces of equipment. Andy also continues to use his truck driving skills as a part of a small race car team where he drives the truck that carries the car and finds himself constantly thinking about his cases every time he gets behind the wheel. This has allowed him to more effectively communicate with truck drivers better and understand things that perhaps other attorneys might not consider. He goes on to describe several examples of how this has come in handy citing personal experiences that have helped him to debunk some theories placed on truck drivers in cases when it comes to the speeds they travel at in relation to what gear they are in, which he notes has “been very, very beneficial.”
The conversation shifts to Andy discussing his great results in the face of some fairly tough fact patterns, where Andy goes into detail regarding his litmus test on how he decides whether to take on a case. It’s worth noting that he does not think it matters whether his client has hit the back of a truck, has had a DUI, were speeding, or had some other issues going on. Instead, he looks at the truck driver and the truck company to see if they created a hazard whereby a crash would not have happened otherwise to determine if the case is worth pursuing or not. He goes into further details on case selection tips, including spending some money upfront to explore how the hazard was created and/or how it was confronted.
Moving the conversation into the courtroom, and wrapping up this episode, Andy describes some of his techniques and analogies he uses to keep his case in a positive light including one he uses with his clients who are angry about their loss (rightfully so) but are in need of help to not become their case’s worst enemy by displaying their hostility. Another analogy he uses with his clients refers to how to determine what’s important and what’s not at trial, which he’s found to resonate well with his clients when he establishes the analogy with his clients early on. Andy also uses a technique where his client’s home is used as a witness, which is truly fascinating and the way he walks through it, literally and figuratively, can really give things a whole new perspective. Truly some incredible strategies and techniques worth listening to and incorporating into any case that’s going to trial.
BACKGROUND
Andrew (Andy) R. Young concentrates his practice on catastrophic truck crashes and wrongful death litigation. He holds an active, interstate, Class A Commercial Driver’s License (CDL) and regularly drives his own Peterbilt semi-tractor and 45-foot racecar trailer. He has testified as a Truck Safety Advocate before the U.S. House of Representatives, Subcommittee on Highways and Transit. He is a member of the Owner Operators Independent Drivers Association (OOIDA). He has testified on behalf of OOIDA and the Ohio Association for Justice’s Truck Safety Section before the Ohio Senate Transportation Committee. He serves as an Executive Officer of the AAJ Trucking Litigation Group and is the immediate, past-president of the Lorain County Bar Association (LCBA). Mr. Young is “AV” rated by Martindale-Hubbell, has been included in Ohio Super Lawyers, and has received numerous awards from AAJ TLG, OAJ, and was the LCBA Member of the Year in 2016. Mr. Young serves on the Board of Regents for the Academy of Truck Accident Attorneys (ATAA) and serves as the ATAA’s current Education Chair. He lectures frequently at continuing legal education programs on trucking litigation and trial advocacy. Mr. Young has served as a Moderator and on the Organization Committee for two industry “Truck Underride Roundtables” hosted at the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) at their crash test facility in Ruckersville, Virginia. Mr. Young is also member of the American Board of Trial Advocates (ABOTA). Mr. Young is a partner with Young and McCarthy, LLP, located in Cleveland, Ohio and works with attorneys throughout the nation.
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07 – Matthew Wright – Finding Additional Liability in Shippers and Brokers
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In this episode of Trial Lawyer Nation, Michael Cowen sits down with Tennessee trial attorney, Matthew Wright who discusses finding additional liability in shippers and brokers.
Matthew hits the ground running with an all too familiar scenario where a trucking case is brought to your attention, only to find out the trucking company is small with minimal insurance (most people are shocked to learn these companies only carry $750k of insurance). Unfortunately, in these cases it generally doesn’t make sense for a family who has suffered a catastrophic loss to go after these small companies, however, this is where Matthew’s keen awareness of liabilities lying with other parties involved (brokers and shippers) comes into play, and it’s not always obvious. In fact, it’s taken Matthew some time to understand it all, but there is a business model that surrounds the industry regarding how cargo flows from the shipper, ultimately to the receiver, and he’s found it “interesting” how these small trucking companies are getting these loads from the large shipping companies. In these cases, a simple $750k verdict can turn into a $2M, $5M, or even as much as a $10M verdict when the overall liability is investigated beyond just the “mom and pop” trucking company for the sake and benefit of the client.
Michael continues the conversation while overlaying specific scenarios with Matthew to fully understand this process, the parties involved, and investigative tactics trial lawyers can specifically use when combing through documents relating to the case. Matthew even goes into detail by drilling down to the specific terminology used in these cases, such as the differences between a “bill of lading” and a “load tender.” Matthew continues to unveil, piece by piece, some of the pervasive maneuvers used throughout the trucking industry which can jeopardize public safety. Truly an informative and enlightening conversation, even for trial lawyers who only run across these cases every so often. One that will help you gain knowledge about these cases, so you don’t pass over millions of dollars in verdicts for yourself, and more importantly your clients.
The episode concludes with Matthew sharing his journey: the start as a law student to becoming a trial attorney focused on trucking cases … the explanation will likely either surprise you or be completely relatable to your own path as a trial lawyer. Nonetheless, Matthew and Michael alike are always willing to share their knowledge and point to several periodicals and groups that have been instrumental in both their success throughout the years as sources for great knowledge of the industry in the truest form of sharing.
Background on Matthew Wright
Matthew E. Wright devotes his career to representing victims of catastrophic truck crashes and improving roadway safety. Frequently associated as co-counsel across the country, he helps identify adequate insurance coverage by exposing the key corporate actors in the supply chain, including primary motor carriers that attempt to shield themselves from liability through captive brokerage divisions and other shell games.
An alumnus of Vanderbilt Law School, Mr. Wright currently serves as Chair of the AAJ Trucking Litigation Group Journal, serves on the group’s Executive Board and has given several talks on truck safety and contributed articles to trucking-related publications. Mr. Wright has served on the Tennessee Trial Lawyers Association Board of Governors, is a member of the Multi-Million Dollar Advocates Forum, the Gerry Spence Trial Lawyers’ College, the Academy of Truck Accident Attorneys, and the National Trial Lawyers Top 10 Trucking Lawyers.
Mr. Wright lives in Franklin, Tennessee with his wife Lindsay and four children, Helen, Sadie, Isaac, and Celie, and is the founding member of Wright Law, PLC.
For more info on Matthew Wright visit: https://www.truckinjurylaw.us/about-matthew-wright/
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46 – Tim Whiting – The Journey of a Trial Lawyer with Perseverance
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In this episode of Trial Lawyer Nation, Michael Cowen sits down with Tim Whiting, of the Whiting Law Group in Chicago, for a conversation exploring the journey which has led to Tim’s outstanding $9M settlement on a recent trucking case.
While Tim primarily handles trucking cases in his practice, this wasn’t always the case. Tim’s story begins from humble beginnings and feeling “poor” as a young boy. When given a homework assignment about what he wanted to be when he grew up, the only thing he could think of was not to be poor. In the process of researching what he wanted to be, he stumbled upon a book by Melvin Belli, a prominent lawyer known as “The King of Torts” which immediately locked him into the desire to become a lawyer and not feel poor.
Tim went on to law school on a wrestling scholarship, which also led to an introduction by his wrestling coach to a well-connected attorney who ultimately introduced Tim to his first job at a large insurance defense firm in Chicago. After about 5 years, feeling miserable as ever, still struggling financially, and watching some good and not so good plaintiff lawyers win large sums of money for their clients, Tim decided “that was the side of the fence I needed to be on” which led to his decision to be a plaintiff lawyer. Ironically, when he told his then boss that he was quitting to start his own plaintiff’s firm, his boss not only laughed at him, but also told him he’d fail within 6 months and he’d keep his chair open for when he comes back.
Starting his firm from his apartment, Tim was hungry for success and started calling up defense and plaintiff lawyers that he had met and taking them out to coffee to give them his sales pitch and tell them he would be very available to their clients and get great results for them. One case led to another and he found some success which led to his nomination for the Top 40 under 40 award in Chicago. Things continued to grow as he moved into an office suite, hired his first assistant, and brought on 4 other lawyers all to find himself several years later still feeling pretty unhappy, even though he was no longer poor. Having a kind of one-on-one intervention with himself, he thought inside “if this is what it looks like the rest of the way, this is not what I want” as he was running rampant doing all kinds of cases with a large docket and feeling some self-doubt having never really experienced any formal trial training. This is when he decided to scale back to 3 lawyers and take on about half the number of cases.
Feeling better already during this process, he happened to take on a trucking case where the company had $1M but the losses were much more. Having never been a part of any attorney organizations before, and as fate would have it, the AAJ conference was in Chicago that year and Tim decided to go. For those who have been to an AAJ conference before, you can imagine all the great information Tim was able to absorb through AAJ’s Trucking Litigation Group listening to people like Michael Leizerman and other top trucking lawyers speak, and also chasing down Joe Fried in the hall (a story that lives in infamy to this day). Tim credits this conference, Joe Fried, Michael Leizerman, and other great trucking attorneys for inspiring him to make the leap and have a more trucking focused practice.
This episode continues through Tim’s journey going to Trial Lawyers College later in his career, with he and Michael then sharing their opinions on when is the right time for an attorney to devote the time and energy to Thunderhead Ranch. Tim also shares a quote he used to have on his mirror in his wrestling years “Champions aren’t born, they’re built” and how he continues to build himself in a way that is insightful and meaningful every day. His genuine and very honest conversation in this episode makes it clear Tim is proud of his work and has not only excelled in his journey to becoming a successful trial lawyer, he is still on his journey. Michael agrees that the journey is never over and adds, “You can’t just go to one program and become a master.” You need to continually be learning, bringing the conclusion of this episode together where Tim’s journey has resulted in a recent $9M trucking case and he describes how his continued learning has led to it all.
BACKGROUND
Timothy M. Whiting is a Nationally board-certified truck accident* trial attorney. Tim has received Board Certification in Truck Accident Law from The National Board of Trial Advocacy (NBTA). To qualify for this prestigious certification, Mr. Whiting was required to demonstrate extensive legal experience in truck accident law, as well and meet rigorous objective quality standards as required by the NTBA.
He is a graduate of the University of Wisconsin Law School and is licensed to practice in both Illinois and Wisconsin. As a trial lawyer, Tim has represented victims of trucking accidents, auto accidents, construction accidents, medical malpractice and serious personal injury cases across the country, winning jury verdicts and settlements in over 10 counties across four states. Since 2019, Tim has committed solely to the representation of individuals or their loved ones who have been harmed in trucking crashes.
To further his own understanding of representing victims of truck accidents, Tim obtained a Commercial Driver’s License (CDL). After passing intense testing and driver training, Tim is legally qualified to drive a 18-wheeler truck. This experience has allowed Tim to have a better understanding of how to safely operate a semi-truck and trailer and what may have gone wrong that led to his clients or their loved ones being harmed in a trucking accident.Due to Tim’s success and commitment in handling serious truck wrecks in Illinois, Wisconsin and in several of the other parts of the United States, he is regularly sought out by other lawyers around the country to either co-counsel or consult on their respective clients’ cases who were harmed in serious trucking accidents.
Tim has been invited to join the nationally recognized Gerry Spence Trial Lawyers College (TLC) as part of the class of July 2019 – the 37th class to graduate from their 3-week program since the College began in 1994. 1,976 graduates have preceded Tim, and with an ever-increasingly rigorous pool of candidates, his selection was of the highest honor of a trial lawyer in the country.
As a result of his accomplishments in representing victims of truck accidents and serious personal injury, Tim has been recognized as one of the Top 100 Lawyers in Illinois by the National Trial Lawyers Association since 2008.In 2015, he was named a Leading Lawyer for Personal Injury Law, an honor earned by fewer than 5% of attorneys in Illinois.
Martindale-Hubbell Law Directory, a top legal publication rating lawyer’s abilities, ranked Tim AV Preeminent, the highest rating a lawyer can receive for Legal Ability and Success in personal injury. (AV Preeminent is a significant rating accomplishment – a testament to the fact that a lawyer’s peers rank him or her at the highest level of professional excellence.)
In 2018, Tim was named as one of the – Top 10 trucking accident trial lawyers by The National Trial Lawyers Association, for his tireless work and proven success in protecting the rights of those injured or killed in truck crashes.
Previously, Tim had been named by the Law Bulletin Publishing Company as one of the Top 40 Lawyers Under Age 40 in Illinois.
Tim has been appointed to the Executive Board, the Board of Regents, and the chair of the New Lawyers Division for the Academy of Truck Accident Attorneys (ATAA).
Tim also serves on the Executive Board of the American Associations of Justice (AAJ) Interstate Trucking Litigation Group.
Tim serves on the Board of Catholic Charities and its Legal Advisory Committee. He is also active in the National Kidney Foundation of Illinois by fundraising and raising awareness about kidney disease and live kidney donation. Tim serves on the Advisory Council for the Northwestern Medicine Comprehensive Transplant Center to promote and advance the mission of transplants to save lives. He also is committed to his local communities, by personally supporting a number of local organizations and their efforts to provide for the homeless and underprivileged people of Chicago.
Website: www.wlglaw.net
Email: twhiting@wlglaw.net
Phone: (312) 372-1655
Address: 901 W. Jackson Blvd., Suite 400, Chicago, IL 60607 -
47 – Delisi Friday – Analyzing Your Marketing Strategies for the Year
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In this episode of Trial Lawyer Nation, Michael Cowen sits down with his in-house Director of Marketing and Business Development, Delisi Friday, for another Table Talk episode. This show focuses specifically on an inside look at what they’re doing to market their law firm, why it’s important to analyze their efforts every year, and how they determine when to pivot on specific marketing strategies.
Delisi starts the conversation describing why an annual review of their firm’s marketing is imperative and how it gives them a chance to see what’s working and what’s not. It also allows their team to see things early enough to allow for them to pivot in order to make something work better. Michael adds that they have also been known to double down on what’s working, in order to accelerate their success in receiving more cases. Although, the “sunk cost fallacy” occasionally gets in the way of making changes once you’ve put time, and money into an effort and continue with it even though (if it’s not working) you might be better off spending your time on something else. He uses their firm magazine as an example of this. “People tell us that it’s great branding all the time, but it doesn’t bring in big cases” Michael states. They detail how this marketing strategy costs $5,000 every month in printing and mailing, not to mention the time (another associated cost) spent on writing and designing. Which is why Michael states the money on this strategy can be much better, and successfully, spent in other ways benefitting their top referral attorneys. He also suggests that sometimes you need to try 10 things to find the 1 or 2 things that do work for your firm. “We gave it a good shot,” Delisi concludes.
The conversation shifts to a discussion on segmentation and how Delisi and Michael determine each segment and the strategies, and marketing costs, involved at each level. Delisi discusses her system for reviewing their mailing list each month to ensure those who are receiving their marketing are more likely to refer a case and thereby keep marketing costs down. This also goes to the point of spending more marketing efforts on existing relationships versus continuously dripping smaller efforts on those you’re trying to establish a relationship with, in hopes that someday they’ll start referring cases. Michael leans toward a 2 year rule, where if an attorney they are targeting hasn’t engaged with them in 24 months, then they stop using the more expensive types of marketing and simply let them continue receiving their emails, which costs almost nothing for them. Michael also describes some of the more elaborate ways they have fostered their existing relationships while finding the most important marketing tactic to keep in mind, is just to spend time with people and keep building relationships.
Continuing the topic of referral attorneys, Delisi brings up an important note about the customer experience being more than just the experience of the client at the center of the case. It goes to the deeper point of nurturing the relationships they have with their referral attorneys and not overlooking the experience they provide to them. Michael explains some of the hesitancies he’s heard from referral partners coming from “other herds” regarding cases being referred out and then having a lack of communication until a check was received or a problem arises in the case, or worse, a call to them describing the need to change the deal splitting fees. Michael and Delisi are both adamant those types of scenarios would never happen at their firm and Michael firmly disagrees with such tactics. Leading Delisi to say “your integrity is worth more than that.” They go on to discuss how their firm avoids surprises for their referring attorneys, the communication strategies they follow to keep everyone involved in each referred case, and why their relationships “truly are a partnership.”
One of the more interesting shifts in the Cowen | Rodriguez | Peacock marketing this last year was when they decided to have Delisi manage the intake department and marketing department. Delisi explains why she has been absolutely delighted by the change and how it has given her a more holistic view of their marketing efforts by not just seeing the number of cases referred, but also the value of those cases and other extremely useful insights to help her guide future marketing efforts. She describes how the relationships with the referring attorneys and their staff has grown after this decision and allows her a chance to help with each new case as it comes into the firm.
Michael segues from Delisi’s internal job of marketing to some external marketing factors and how some past experiences have led to the decisions they are making today. Delisi points out how Michael’s decision to no longer handle small auto cases which tend to settle in pre-lit has changed their marketing and also the success of their firm, but “it didn’t happen overnight.” Next, Michael discusses how they previously used a marketing firm that only did legal marketing but found their track record quickly became “triple the price for half the results.” Today, they use a marketing company with only a few legal clients, which they see as a benefit to them. But Michael adds this decision also leads to some disconnect on messaging, because the B2B marketing tactics used with attorneys is delicate and not a hard sell like other industries. They’ve also learned the same lesson by hiring a local graphic designer to help with visuals for cases, which again helps to get the perspective of someone who does not have a background in the legal world and can help to design trial visuals universally understood.
The TLN Table Talk comes full circle to a discussion on why it is important to analyze, measure, and decide on the next year’s marketing efforts before the new year begins. Michael describes their process of looking at ROI (return on investment) and how it drives much of his decision-making process as well as how it is slightly different for their firm, being that they do not market direct to consumers and focus all of their efforts on referral attorneys. Delisi ends by stating why it is important for attorneys to make time for marketing no matter how busy they are, why consistency can help during those slow business months, and shares a Henry Ford quote for everyone to keep in mind when considering a reduction of their marketing budget.
Trial Lawyer Nation plans to do more “Table Talks” in the future as this podcast has always been about inclusive learning for all in our industry, which includes learning from each other! Please keep submitting your questions, comments, and topic suggestions to podcast@triallawyernation.com; and be sure to join our “Trial Lawyer Nation – Insider’s Circle” group on Facebook to privately interact with the show!
