58 â Nick Rowley â Brutal Honesty
In this long-awaited podcast, Michael sits down with renowned trial lawyer Nick Rowley. They discuss Nickâs journey to success, how he came up with âbrutal honesty,â his book âRunning With the Bulls,â the secret to settling high value cases, saying ânoâ to the defense, and Nickâs advice for how to become a better trial lawyer.
The conversation begins with Nick sharing his path to becoming the record-breaking trial lawyer he is today. Nick describes himself as a âjuvenile delinquentâ when he was a child. He was bullied a lot in school and expelled from every school he attended. After graduation, he decided to join the military to âkill bad guys,â but ended up becoming a medic. It was this role that fueled him with purpose. Using his GI Bill, Nick finished his bachelorâs degree and attended law school to continue his desire to help others, which he describes as an addiction.
Nick was never afraid to take tough cases to trial and losing, because he grew up getting beat up. He adds that even if he does lose, he learns more from his losses than his wins and they help make him a better lawyer. Michael echoes this sentiment and agrees that losses hurt in the short-term, but donât bother him in the long run.
The conversation shifts when Michael shares how heâs noticed most top trial lawyers werenât âborn with a silver spoon in their mouth,â to which Nick wholeheartedly agrees. âItâs about life experience,â Nick states. He goes on to explain how if youâve never had to work hard, experience failure, been afraid, or gone without, you donât have the same âhungerâ as someone who has. Nick emphasizes the importance of inner drive and notes trial lawyers who grew up without anything know if they donât put in the work, no one else is going to do it for them. Michael also explains how itâs easier to feel comfortable in a clientâs home when youâre used to the environment most of them live in. Both share stories of getting to know clients on a personal level and how this translates to a successful jury verdict.
Michael then transitions by asking Nick which case he is most proud of in his established career. Instead of talking about his largest verdict, he shares a story of a smaller verdict on a particularly challenging case. After being called upon by a lawyer having severe health issues the day before his trial was set to begin, Nick flew out to Santa Monica to help get the case continued. The defense lawyer was uncooperative and lacked the slightest bit of sympathy for the attorney, so Nick decided to try it without any prior knowledge of the case. His description of voir dire and addressing what he saw as the pain points of the case with brutal honesty is riveting and concludes with a $1.5 million verdict based solely on non-economic damages.
Nick is highly regarded as a trial lawyer for many reasons, but he is probably most famous for coining the term âbrutally honestâ in jury selection. Nick shares the story of how he came up with the term and explains why it works so well. He emphasizes the importance of asking jurors to define âbrutal honestyâ themselves, then asking them to please be brutally honest with you. This strategy has made a huge difference in Nickâs jury selection process. As an example, Michael role plays as a juror who doesnât believe in money for pain. Through this example, Nick shows how he would address a juror with these views. Michael and Nick both agree stereotyping jurors immediately is an ineffective strategy and should be avoided.
The conversation shifts into a discussion of Nickâs book, âRunning With the Bulls.â Michael inquires as to why Nick decided to write a book about settling cases when he is most famous for trying cases. Nick answers simply, âI do settle cases.â Nick insists the secret to settling cases for high value is âhaving the balls to go to trial.â He describes his frustration with not getting paid after a jury verdict and started thinking of ways to preemptively strike against this, so as soon as he gets his jury verdict he is âable to collect it immediately.â This resulted in Nick crafting a process to âexpose the bullshitâ and the insurance company puppet masters, a process he shares with fellow plaintiff attorneys to help raise the bar for everyone.
Michael shares the chapter of the book which resonated with him the most, âThe Power of No.â He explains how he still feels bad for saying ânoâ to the defense, even though he knows better. Nick believes most trial lawyers are gentle, accommodating people by nature. He shares a strategy for re-framing this mindset when it comes to the defense, ending with, âThey are the enemy, because theyâre working for the enemy ⊠be kind and accommodating. But when it comes to money, donât hold anything back.â
The two transition into a discussion of criteria for accepting cases. Nick states there arenât criteria. For him it is asking himself – Do I feel something inside? Is there something I can do for this person? Can I imagine myself standing in front of the jury? He notes that in an ideal world, he would only work on large cases, but argues the small cases are just as important, stating âIf Iâm not willing to take these cases, who else is?â For example, a case where a child was killed in a state with a $250,000 cap on non-economic damages is still a case worth fighting for. Nick emphasizes the need for industry leaders to set an example for other lawyers by taking on these worthy cases, even if they donât lead to a huge payout.
The conversation ends with Michael asking Nick what he thinks a lawyer needs to do to be the next Nick Rowley. Nick states, âI want the lawyer who has the drive to do whatever it takes.â He emphasizes the importance of learning everything available from industry experts, listing off a multitude of names including Keith Mitnik, David Ball, Randi McGinn, and many more. He adds that having the guts to try difficult cases, learning from your losses, and breaking the mold are incredibly important in the journey to becoming a successful trial lawyer.
If youâd like to learn more from Nick Rowley, subscribe to the Trial By Human and Trial By Women list serves, attend his seminars, or visit his website to find more information about bringing Nick in on a case. You can also support Nickâs political efforts to fight the $250,000 cap on non-economic damages by visiting fairnessact.com.
This podcast also covers taking care of yourself during trial, lifting state caps on non-economic damages, the pain of trying a wrongful death case, where Nick is trying to improve, and so much more.
BACKGROUND ON NICK ROWLEY
Many consider Nicholas C. Rowley to be the most accomplished trial lawyer of his generation. He has extensive courtroom experience representing victims of serious injuries and medical malpractice, especially those who have suffered traumatic brain injuries, spinal injuries, and chronic pain. In 2009 and 2010, the Consumer Attorneys Association of Los Angeles (CAALA) named Nick as a finalist for its prestigious âTrial Lawyer of the Yearâ award. Nick was also recognized by the Los Angeles Daily Journal for winning a âTop Verdict of 2010â for his $31.6 million jury verdict for the victim of a traumatic brain injury. In 2012, Nick was a finalist for the âConsumer Attorney of the Yearâ award, given by CAOC (Consumer Attorneys of California). In 2009, the Consumer Attorneys of San Diego awarded Nick its âOutstanding Trial Lawyerâ award. In 2013, Nick was honored with the organizationâs top award â âOutstanding Trial Lawyer of the Yearâ.  Also Some of Nickâs other recent successes include a record-setting $74,525,000 verdict for a victim of medical malpractice, a $38,600,000 jury verdict for a young man who fell from a hotel balcony while intoxicated, a $17,000,000 win for woman who suffered a mild traumatic brain injury caused by a fall from a hotel window and a $13,860,000 win for a mild traumatic brain injury caused by an automobile crash.
Nick has served as an instructor at Gerry Spenceâs famed Trial Lawyers College and delivers keynote addresses nationwide on his revolutionary approach to voir dire and damages. Other lawyers, faced with low settlement offers from insurance companies, frequently bring Nick into their cases just before trial. Nick is a relentless warrior who has prevailed in the courtroom time and time again. He prides himself on his caring and empathetic approach to working with his clients and their families, and his ability to help juries find the truth and deliver justice to the injured.
Nick is on the Board of Directors of the Imagination Workshop, which is a non-profit theater arts organization committed to using the unique power of the theater to provide life-changing artistic opportunities to the mentally ill, homeless veterans, senior citizens, and âat-riskâ young people. IW programs give troubled people, frequently alienated or overlooked by society, a safe way to express themselves and gain insight that often helps make their lives more successful.
Nick is also on the Honorary Board of Governors of TLC, Los Angeles Trial Lawyersâ Charties, a non-profit organization whose purpose is to make a positive difference in the quality of life for people within the greater Los Angeles area, focusing on issues related to education, children, battered women, persons with disabilities, and homelessness, by providing financial assistance to needy persons and groups in the greater Los Angeles area.
Nick is the author of the book Trial By Human, where he candidly shares his approach that brings brutal honesty and humanity into the courtroom.