In this episode, Natanya Brooks shares how creativity, authenticity, and bold experimentation transformed her trial practice and helped her connect more deeply with juries. From a life-changing experience to developing unconventional courtroom strategies, she explains how trusting your instincts and embracing vulnerability can lead to powerful results.
You’ll learn practical ways to break courtroom monotony, use engaging visuals and storytelling, and deliver arguments that truly resonate. If you’re ready to think differently and stand out, this episode will inspire you to push boundaries and elevate your approach.
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175 – Harlan Schillinger – Why Your Marketing Isn’t Working
In 1977, when attorney advertising became legal through the Bates decision, Harlan Schillinger spotted an opportunity that would pioneer an entire industry. In this episode, the self-described “grandfather of legal marketing” shares insights from his nearly five decades of experience with host Michael Cowen. While emphasizing television’s enduring power, Harlan explains how social media and digital strategies have transformed legal marketing, creating both challenges and opportunities. Harlan and Michael explore why authenticity and compassion must remain central to any successful legal marketing approach.
Michael and Malorie welcome listener questions for a new “Ask Michael and Malorie Anything” feature. To submit a question, email Michael.
Featured Guest
Name: Harlan Schillinger
About: Known as the “grandfather of legal marketing,” Harlan entered the field in 1977 following the Bates decision that allowed attorney advertising. With nearly five decades of experience, he pioneered television advertising for attorneys and has helped countless law firms develop effective marketing strategies.
Company: Harlanschillinger.com
Episode Highlights
[02:05] Pioneering Legal Marketing: Harlan recounts entering the legal marketing scene in 1977, producing the first television commercials for lawyers in 1978-79.
[05:27] Phone Call Importance: Harlan emphasizes the critical importance of answering the phone properly for both business success and showing compassion to clients on “their worst day.”
[13:52] Television’s Evolution: While still “king,” television has fragmented across countless channels and streaming services, requiring strategic placement rather than simply outspending competitors.
[17:45] “You Get What You Ask For”: Harlan explains that lawyers must carefully craft their messaging to attract the specific types of cases they want.
[20:49] Starting with Limited Budget: For new lawyers with minimal marketing funds, Harlan recommends leveraging social media and nurturing past client relationships through consistent communication.
[27:38] Digital Strategy First: When selecting a digital marketing partner, Harlan advises attorneys to first ask about strategy rather than specific tactics, ensuring alignment with the firm’s goals and voice.
[31:16] Authenticity Matters: Harlan stresses the importance of being yourself in marketing because audiences will see through inauthentic messaging.
[35:51] Fix Your Intake First: Before spending on external marketing, firms must build “bulletproof” intake and conversion systems to prevent client leakage.
[41:10] The Vulnerability Window: Clients are most likely to reconsider their choice of attorney during specific periods: immediately after signing and during case lulls.
[44:01] Culture Defines Success: The culture and character of a law firm ultimately determine its success, affecting how clients feel about their experience regardless of case outcomes.
Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation
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In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.
Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.
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169 – Sonia Rodriguez – Life Happens; Past Injuries Aren’t Fatal to PI Clients’ Claims
Rarely does a personal injury client walk in the door with a clean medical history. Aches, pains, complaints, chiropractic visits – “it’s just the reality of life,” says Sonia Rodriguez, host Michael Cowen’s colleague at Cowen Rodriguez Peacock.
In this conversation, Sonia and Michael discuss the art of strategically managing personal injury cases that involve preexisting conditions and subsequent incidents. Tune in for their insights about leveraging prior medical history, collateral witnesses, and creative tactics to secure successful outcomes.
Featured Guest
Name: Sonia Rodriguez
About: Sonia Rodriguez, a native of San Antonio, Texas, is a partner at Cowen Rodriguez Peacock. She has represented only plaintiffs for nearly 20 years, focusing on personal injury trial and appellate law. Beyond her practice, Sonia supports important civic and community causes, including the Young Women’s Leadership Academy and the SAISD Foundation.
Company: Cowen Rodriguez Peacock
Connect: LinkedIn
Episode Highlights
[03:39] Information Is Everywhere: Years ago, insurance adjusters had little access to a client’s medical past, but today, that information is readily available on robust databases.
[06:35] Quelling an “A-ha!” Moment: Anticipating that the defense lawyer would think he had an “a-ha!” moment when he discovered her client’s past neck surgery, Sonia told him at the outset.
[14:21] “SettLiT”: The team at Cowen Rodriguez Peacock has started using this new database that shows prior doctors, codes for treatment, and prescriptions.
[18:33] Pain in the Neck: Sonia welcomes clients who have a history of going to the doctor for every rash, headache, or eye twitch because “you can see this person would have gone to the doctor if they had pain in the neck or back.”
[23:35] What’s the Story? The plaintiff’s lawyer must look deeper than the client or medical records – to coworkers and family, supported by photos and videos if possible.
[25:05] Metadata: Always check a photo’s metadata to determine when it was taken: before or after the injury? The defense will.
[29:42] If Something Can Go Wrong… Move cases quickly, because, as Sonia says, “the longer you live with a case on a litigation docket, on a trial docket, the more chances there are of something going wrong.” Michael offers strategies for managing a client’s new claim.
[36:24] “Judo Law”: Client had a minor health issue before their injury? Take what the defense thinks is a strong point and turn it into yours.
Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation
☑️ Follow us on X, Facebook, Instagram & LinkedIn.
☑️ Subscribe to Trial Lawyer Nation on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube.
In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.
Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.
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162 – Jessica Brylo – Harnessing the Power of Big Data and Focus Groups
Think of focus groups as macro – exposing holes in the case and main issues from the jurors’ perspectives. Think of big data as micro – revealing the win rate, the ask, the possible outcome in terms of money.
In her second visit to Trial Lawyer Nation, Jessica Brylo, owner and lead litigation consultant at Trial Dynamics, outlines the utility of both tools. The conversation with host Michael Cowen dovetails with Jessica’s first appearance on the show, when she shared her insights about how jurors make decisions and how to frame cases persuasively. In this visit, Jessica discusses when and what to expect in hiring a consultant. She also previews her three programs at the upcoming TLU Vegas: lectures on focus groups and case framing and a workshop on case framing, where participants will actually work through a case.
Email Jessica to learn more about how she can help you.
Featured Guest
Name: Jessica Brylo
About: Jessica Brylo is the owner and lead litigation consultant at Trial Dynamics, a national litigation consulting firm dedicated to plaintiff’s civil and criminal defense cases. She specializes in case framing, jury research, focus groups, mock trials, big data studies, opening statement development, witness preparation, and jury selection. Over the past two decades, Jessica has spoken to thousands of jurors and conducted hundreds of mock trials, the results of which she uses to guide case strategy and framing on cases ranging from soft tissue injuries to nine-figure catastrophic injury cases and multi-billion dollar class-action lawsuits.
Company: Trial Dynamics on Instagram
Episode Highlights
[05:48] Big Data Starts Here: In the beginning, the attorney fills out a template describing the case. That’s sent to 300-some jurors, whose written responses are compiled in an Excel spreadsheet.
[13:31] Big Data v. Focus Groups: They’re two different things. Jury consultants guide lawyers on which tool is the most effective and budget-friendly.
[21:37] Making It Count: A jury consultant’s service to run big data costs money, but spending that money on the frontend often yields results on the backend: illuminating the value of your case.
[26:03] If You Can’t Do Both: If your budget allows either a focus group or big data, Jessica recommends using a focus group. Here’s why.
[30:51] Mock Trials: There are several methods and uses for this tool, and they can offer advantages in terms of preparing a client who may be nervous or even overconfident.
[35:02] The DIY Challenge: Lawyers who want to do their own focus groups should be prepared to spend lots of “elbow grease” to build an effective, representative database.
Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation
☑️ Follow us on X, Facebook, Instagram & LinkedIn.
☑️ Subscribe to Trial Lawyer Nation on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube.
In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.
Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.
