In this episode of Trial Lawyer Nation, host Michael Cowen sits down with renowned jury consultant Robert Hirschhorn. Robert shares his journey from criminal defense attorney to pioneering jury consultant, and how he and his partner, Cathy Bennett, helped transform the field. He introduces Verdict Hub, an AI-driven platform making jury research more accessible for personal injury lawyers, and discusses the role of AI in trials, blending data with human intuition, and what’s ahead for tech in the courtroom.
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190 – Nicholas Liakas & Jessica Brylo – Beyond The Verdict: How Preparation and Credibility Win Tough Cases
In this episode of Trial Lawyer Nation, host Michael Cowen is joined by Nicholas Liakas, a New York attorney, and Jessica Brylo, a trial consultant. They discuss a challenging case involving a young man who suffered severe injuries at a train station. The episode delves into the complexities of the case, including the defense’s claim of attempted suicide, the strategies employed to counter this narrative, and the importance of jury selection. Nicholas and Jessica share insights on trial preparation, the significance of credibility, and the art of closing arguments, highlighting the “Man in the Black Suit” technique that helped secure a $23 million verdict.
Featured Guest
Name: Nicholas Liakas
Company: Liakas Law
Name: Jessica Brylo
Company: Trial Dynamics
Contact: jessica@trialdynamics.net
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174 – Amy Hall – Elevating Your Case with Visual Trial Strategy
Host Michael Cowen welcomes back visual trial strategist Amy Hall for a discussion about her work helping lawyers connect with juries through visual displays. As she explains, people remember more of what they see than what they just hear – which makes visuals an important tactic in the courtroom. Her strategy focuses on guiding her clients to distill a case so that they display only important points on visual elements like timelines.
Michael and Malorie welcome listener questions for a new “Ask Michael and Malorie Anything” feature. To submit a question, email Michael.
Featured Guest
Name: Amy Hall
About: Amy is a visual trial strategist with over 18 years of experience helping trial lawyers create compelling visual presentations. Her background in graphic design and experience across various industries, including the gambling industry, gave her unique insights into decision-making, emotions, and attention that she now applies to litigation strategy.
Company: Visual Trial Strategy | Trial Strategy Academy
Connect: LinkedIn
Episode Highlights
[04:18] Visual Trial Strategy Defined: Understanding that people are visual creatures, this strategy distills a case in a way that helps jurors connect with it.
[08:33] Pictorial Superiority Concept: It means, simply, that people remember what they see a lot more than they remember what they hear.
[14:14] Distill! One of the first things Amy asks her lawyer clients to do is prepare a two-page neutral statement on the case. When they complain that the case is too complex to be distilled into two pages, she says: “Keep trying.”
[19:08] Common Visuals: The formula is the “shot across the bow” and should be the first exhibit shown, Amy says. She also describes this suite of three exhibits: the anchor, link, and payoff.
[23:59] Battle of the Experts: Expert testimony should always be accompanied with visuals, Amy says, and she never lets an expert bring their own exhibit.
[28:12] Open-Ended Questions: Lawyers often fear asking jurors open-ended questions. Amy is “obsessed” with them because, she says, jurors will love a lawyer who gives them the freedom to come to their own conclusions.
[34:48] Timelines: They’re important because they represent the plaintiff’s history and the defendant’s decisions. But Amy cautions that timelines must simplify the information so the jury is not confused.
[37:39] At the Beginning: That’s when the plaintiff’s lawyer should start developing their visual strategy. “If you start that process, you are going to eliminate a lot of blind alleys,” Amy says.
[42:16] Five Hours a Day: Amy prefers to work with her clients in blocks – five hours a day for four consecutive days – because distilling a case takes sustained time and energy.
[46:58] AI: Amy welcomes exciting, powerful new technology, but she notes that visual trial strategy is tied to a technology that’s been locked in place for some 25,000 years: the human brain.
Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation
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In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.
Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.
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114 – Brandon Thompson – Winning Medical Malpractice Cases
Anuj Thapa wanted the American dream. A college student from Nepal who came to the United States to pursue mechanical engineering, Anuj had big dreams of getting his degree and becoming the breadwinner for his family members at home in Nepal.
But his aspirations were destroyed by a leg injury that led to a painful condition called compartment syndrome. Due to the neglect of his doctors, the damage that Anuj suffered after his surgery left him disabled.
Luckily for Anuj, he got one of the most esteemed medical malpractice lawyers in the country to try his case, Ciresi Conlin’s Brandon E. Thompson. With 17 years of experience in the medical malpractice law arena, he was able to win Anuj $111 million in damages. The defense’s argument? They claimed that Anuj — a 19-year-old in the U.S. on a student visa — was lying about when and where he developed compartment syndrome.
“That was a gift to us that they framed the case that way because it allowed us, throughout the case, to paint this as a credibility contest,” Brandon said. “Find me another case where you’ve got somebody who truly has had their American dream torn away from them in the way that his was.”
For Brandon, presenting cases to the jury with empathy is the key to success — and he’s had a lot of it. Tune in to this episode of Trial Lawyer Nation as host Michael Cowen talks with Brandon about all things medical malpractice: from the weaknesses of liability arguments to the secrets of getting a jury on your side.
Featured Guest
Name: Brandon E. Thompson
About: Brandon Thompson’s entire legal career has been dedicated to representing individuals and families who have suffered from the negligence of medical professionals. There is no greater professional honor for Brandon than being asked to help people when they are facing the darkest times of their lives.
Brandon is one of the foremost trial lawyers of his generation. He has won numerous multi-million jury trials — including some of the largest-ever jury verdicts in the State of Minnesota for clients harmed by serious medical malpractice — and has negotiated many millions of dollars of settlements for his clients. He is a member of a number of elite national and international trial organizations, and in 2018 was invited to be the youngest-ever Fellow of the International Academy of Trial Lawyers, the most prestigious organization of trial lawyers in the world.
Brandon’s work ethic and compassion were a product of his blue-collar upbringing; his grandfather was a mechanic, his dad was an electrician at the Ford plant, and he was the first person in his family to go to college. The father of three children, including a young daughter with extraordinary medical needs, he empathizes with his clients in a way few lawyers truly can.
Company: Ciresi Conlin, LLP
Connect: Email
Key Points
Top takeaways from this episode
- Look beyond liability. When choosing which cases to defend, one of the biggest mistakes lawyers can make is choosing a claim based on liability claims alone. Liability is not always as strong as it seems, so the first criterion should always be the seriousness of the injury or damages.
- Differentiate your case. One of the best things medical malpractice lawyers can do to win over a jury is to differentiate their case and show how it is an outlier.
- Avoid credibility arguments. In the case Brandon won for Nepali student Anuj Thapa, the hospital’s biggest mistake was using credibility as their primary defense. In this case, it was deeply improbable that someone like Anuj, who risked everything to pursue his “American dream,” would lie about his injury.
Episode Highlights
[01:43] Meet the expert: Brandon E. Thompson talks about how he went from insurance defense at a corporate firm — a job he hated — to one of the country’s foremost personal injury lawyers.
[04:42] Humble beginnings: Brandon’s upbringing in a blue-collar family influenced his decision to help people through law.
[06:06] Right place, right time: When Brandon decided it was time for a job change, he was given an opportunity that would shape the rest of his career: a job with one of the nation’s best medical malpractice lawyers.
[10:59] Picking the right cases: In a field that has no shortage of potential cases, how do medical malpractice lawyers choose which ones are worth defending?
[15:17] The chance for success: When so much of a case’s success rests on the jury — and luck — here’s what medical malpractice lawyers can do to boost their chances of victory.
[17:19] Differentiate the case: One of the strongest things lawyers can do to strengthen their case is to differentiate the situation from the norm and show how it is an outlier. Brandon offers examples of how to do this successfully.
[21:27] The $100 million case: Brandon tells the devastating story of his client Anuj Thapa — a Nepali college student who was the victim of a botched surgery — and how Brandon won his client $111 million in damages.
[32:53] What went wrong: Brandon explains how he framed — and later won — the case against the hospital and who was to blame for the permanent ailments Anuj was left with after his surgery.
[38:04] What drove the verdict: The lucky combination of Anuj’s strong story with a good jury helped Brandon win the case.
[45:49] Making the ask: How do medical malpractice lawyers decide how much in compensation to ask a jury for? Brandon explains why asking for a specific number may not always be the best choice.
[51:45] Rejecting the reptile strategy: David Ball and Don Keenan’s 2009 book “Reptile” presents a strategy that uses fear and anger to get jurors to sympathize with a plaintiff — but the approach may not work for everyone.
Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation
☑️ Follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram & LinkedIn.
☑️ Subscribe to Trial Lawyer Nation on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube.
In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.
Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.
