Host Michael Cowen invites Business Development Manager Abbey Vela to discuss how Cowen Rodriguez Peacock attracts and then keeps referral partners over the long haul. Abbey’s role at the firm is to connect and communicate with referrals; as she explains, it’s a position that “a lot of law firms tend to lack.” Michael observes that any firm interested in building a referral-based practice must be prepared to offer value. “It can’t just be, ‘Come listen to how, what a badass I am and why you should give me your cases.’ No one wants to hear that.”
Finally, Michael and Abbey encourage listeners to attend the firm’s Big Rig Masterclass in Las Vegas on October 16, part of TLU Vegas. Those interested in enrolling can visit Cowen’s Big Rig Masterclass and use the promo code COWEN400 to save $400 off the price of registration.
Featured Guest
Name: Abbey Vela
About: Abbey is the business development manager at Cowen Rodriguez Peacock, where she liaises between the firm’s lawyers and referral partners. She has more than eight years of experience in building and growing businesses.
Company: Cowen Rodriguez Peacock
Connect: LinkedIn
Episode Highlights
[02:51] The Conduit: As a non-lawyer, Abbey learned the “language” of lawyers to support the firm’s big picture: building and maintaining relationships with referral partners.
[06:16] Communication Styles: From emails to texts to phone calls to in-person meetings, Abbey adapts to referral partners’ preferred communication styles.
[16:12] Building Relationships: The work of generating referrals starts with building relationships. Abbey offers her strategies.
[19:02] In It for the Long Haul: The goal with a referral-based practice is to have a long-term relationship that matures. Michael shares insight about partnering with a firm that, today, co-counsels with his firm on high seven-figure or low eight-figure trucking cases.
[21:28] Celebration Surveys: Abbey conducts “celebration surveys” – asking questions like “What sports do you like?” and “What are your hobbies?” – to connect with referral partners.
[23:17] Sharing Information The key to getting referrals from other lawyers is providing value, such as sharing actionable information that someone can use in practice.
Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation
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In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.
Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.
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189 – Michael Cowen – Mastering the Art and Heart of Legal Practice
In this episode of “Trial Lawyer Nation,” Sonia Rodriguez interviews Michael Cowen, delving into his journey from a background skeptical of personal injury law to becoming a passionate advocate for clients. Michael shares his initial reluctance, influenced by family views against lawsuits, and how working part-time for personal injury lawyers during law school changed his perspective. He discusses the autonomy and meaningful work he found in personal injury law compared to corporate litigation, and his drive to ensure clients receive the same representation as major corporations. Michael also reflects on personal growth, the importance of therapy, and fostering a supportive, inclusive law firm culture. The conversation highlights his love for the art of law, storytelling in trials, and the satisfaction of mentoring young lawyers.
Featured Guest
Name: Sonia Rodriguez
About: Sonia has represented only plaintiffs for nearly 20 years. She practices in the areas of personal injury trial and appellate law.
Company: Cowen | Rodriguez | Peacock
Connect: LinkedIn
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176 – Malorie Peacock – “Ask Michael and Malorie Anything” – Demonstrations and Reenactments
“Seeing is believing. When people actually see something rather than just hearing someone talk about it, it makes a huge difference,” host Michael Cowen says of the impact of live demonstrations in personal injury cases. In this segment of “Ask Michael and Malorie Anything,” Michael and partner Malorie Peacock reveal how real-world demonstrations can make complex principles understandable to jurors, why they’re more effective than animations, and when to invest in this powerful trial strategy.
Click here to learn about the firm’s Big Rig Boot Camp on July 10.Michael and Malorie welcome listener questions for a new “Ask Michael and Malorie Anything” feature. To submit a question, email Michael.
Featured Guest
Name: Malorie Peacock
About: A name partner at Cowen Rodriguez Peacock, Malorie represents clients who have been injured by the negligence of others. Her experience includes working on commercial vehicle, trucking, and wrongful death cases.
Company: Cowen Rodriguez Peacock
Connect: LinkedIn | X | Facebook | Instagram | YouTube
Episode Highlights
[03:10] Demonstration vs. Reenactment: Malorie explains that demonstrations illustrate principles rather than recreating exact scenarios, making them legally stronger and less vulnerable to attack.
[06:08] Seeing is Believing: Michael and Malorie discuss why jurors find real-world demonstrations more credible and engaging than animations, which jurors instinctively view with suspicion.
[11:57] Brake Line Example: In the Buntyn case, their trucking expert demonstrated what really happens when a brake line is severed on an 18-wheeler to disprove the defendant’s claims.
[20:35] Trial Pitfalls: Michael shares a cautionary tale about a courtroom glass-breaking demonstration gone wrong, highlighting why pre-recorded demonstrations are often safer.
[27:07] Visibility Study: For a case involving a nighttime collision with an angled trailer, they created a carefully controlled demonstration using identical vehicles and lighting conditions.
[33:09] Crash Testing: In a product liability case against a trailer manufacturer, their six-figure crash test investment yielded a substantial return by proving that the underride guard was inadequate.
[38:35] Rumble Strip Demonstration: Malorie describes how they proved rumble strips would have alerted an 18-wheeler driver by conducting a real-world test with identical equipment on the actual crash site road.
[43:13] Big Rig Boot Camp: The firm will host a trucking litigation seminar on July 10 in San Antonio, which will include more demonstration techniques and in-depth case strategies.
Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation
☑️ Follow us on X, Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn.
☑️ Subscribe to Trial Lawyer Nation on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube.
In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.
Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.
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117 – Isabella Santellan – How to Build a Referral-Based Practice
When it comes to personal injury law, the client-firm relationship can be fairly transactional. Most clients aren’t talking about their personal injury cases with their network, and lawyers hope that their clients don’t get injured again and become repeat customers.
But when you have mostly transactional, single-case relationships with clients, how can you gain more business? If your personal injury clients aren’t telling their network about you, who will?
One of the most rewarding methods for gaining more business is referral marketing. Creating longstanding attorney referral relationships gives you a pipeline for more cases, helps you build a reputation, and keeps your firm top of mind in the industry. However, in order to succeed with referral-based marketing, you have to cultivate your relationships and think about what the other person wants.
According to Michael Cowen and the team at Cowen Rodriguez Peacock, you have to give back in order to grow your referral-based business. Take referring attorneys out to lunch or to an event that they would enjoy. Or, give them a gift that’s personalized (and doesn’t have your firm’s name or logo on it). However you decide to show gratitude to your referral partners, it’s important that you create a system to follow up, check in every now and then, and continue nurturing that relationship.
Above all, Michael says that it’s important to create a culture of sharing and respect and keep your promises with referring attorneys. You don’t have to take every case that comes your way, and you can’t guarantee the outcome of a case. You can, however, promise to work hard, keep clients informed, and honor the deal you made.
In episode 117, Isabella Santellan, the Marketing Assistant at Cowen Rodriguez Peacock, asks Michael Cowen all of the essential questions about building a referral-based business and tending to referral relationships. Listen to this episode of Trial Lawyer Nation to hear Michael’s advice on building a referral network and nurturing relationships, turning down referral cases, and simplifying the referral process for your firm.
Featured Guest
Name: Isabella Santellan
About: Isabella Santellan is the Marketing Assistant at Cowen Rodriguez Peacock. She was born and raised in San Antonio, TX and recently received her B.B.A in Management from the University of Texas at San Antonio. As the Marketing Assistant, Isabella runs the firm’s social media, helps plan events, and works to ensure they provide an unforgettable experience to everyone they work with. In her free time, Isabella enjoys traveling, golfing, and spending time with her family.
Company: Cowen Rodriguez Peacock
Connect: LinkedIn
Key Points
Top takeaways from this episode
- Start with the people you already know (and don’t be too picky about cases). It’s difficult to come out of law school and have the reputation and network needed to create a referral-based business. Michael Cowen suggests you get your foot in the door by being hungry, humble, and persistent. Take cases from those who are already in your network and expand your business from there.
- Give your referring attorneys what they want. It’s important to stay top of mind when you’re building a referral-based business. How do you do this? Michael says you need to give back to your referral partners. Take your referring attorneys to lunch or to an event that they might enjoy. You could also give them a call, send a handwritten thank you note, or give them a gift (without your firm’s name or logo on it). However you show gratitude, you have to do so with the other person in mind.
- Nurture your existing referrals. When trying to build a referral-based business, many firms make the mistake of moving on to new referrals without nurturing existing partnerships. But the key is to create longstanding relationships with attorney referrals. It’s much harder to convince someone new to send you the first case, and it’s more fruitful to put effort into the connections that are already sending business your way.
Episode Highlights
[02:40] The foundation of great attorney referral relationships: The key to establishing great referral relationships is nurturing your connections, setting expectations upfront, and making sure you stay top of mind.
[06:05] The three things a referring lawyer or co-counsel wants: Every referring lawyer or co-counsel wants as much money as possible, as quickly as possible, without client complaints. Michael Cowen breaks down the details of how to achieve this.
[07:27] How to keep a referring lawyer’s attention: Michael shares Cowen Rodriguez Peacock’s strategies for keeping a referring lawyer’s attention and making sure they choose you over competitors.
[09:07] Turning down a referral’s case: The number one step to respectfully turn down a referral’s case is to do it swiftly. It’s hard to say no, but it’s better than accepting a case that you’ll later regret. Michael also suggests directing a case to a different firm and offering a possible solution.
[12:00] What you can and can’t guarantee to a referring lawyer: You can’t guarantee the outcome of a case, but you can promise that you’ll work hard and keep the team informed about the details of a case.
[13:13] How a new attorney can build their referral network: Start with people you already know. From there, you can build out your network and run your business on referrals. Especially when starting out, you have to get your foot in the door — you can’t be too picky about cases until you build your reputation.
[18:30] Michael’s experience with referrals: Michael shares his advice for working with referring lawyers and developing your referral process. He also talks about the big mistakes he made early in his career and how you can avoid those same mistakes.
[25:32] Simplifying the referral process: The key to simplifying the process for referring attorneys is to remove the bottlenecks. If you’re busy, put them in contact with someone else on your team who can give them the time and attention they need. For Michael, getting clear on criteria for automatic ‘yeses’ and ‘nos’ can help simplify the process as well.
[26:51] Other methods to gain referrals: Michael explains how his seminar, Big Rig Boot Camp, and his podcast create a referral funnel and generate more business.
[30:43] What to do after you win the referral: It can be tempting to constantly look for new referrals, but Michael advises you to spend more time and effort on your existing referral relationships.
Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation
☑️ Follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram & LinkedIn.
☑️ Subscribe to Trial Lawyer Nation on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube.
In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.
Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.
