In this Trial Lawyer Nation podcast, Michael talks with his law partner Malorie Peacock to discuss his recent virtual seminar, Cowen’s Big Rig Boot Camp. They draw parallels between the seminar and the courtroom, including utilizing camera angles through Zoom, energy management, and how to use slides and graphics effectively. Michael also shares a sneak peek inside his upcoming Trial Guides book on trucking law.
The episode begins with a brief overview of what Cowen’s Big Rig Boot Camp looked like in 2020. While it remained a 6-hour trucking seminar, it was done entirely virtually. Michael describes the multitude of tactics he used to keep the audience engaged, which included celebrity appearances and surprising attendees with actor and comedian David Koechner live.
He notes one of the biggest engagement factors was the use of multiple camera angles and a professional AV crew. Through this, he was able to stand for the presentation and use hand gestures naturally. Malorie and Michael draw parallels between this and a Zoom hearing or trial and agree they’d like to find a way to stand while conducting Zoom hearings. Michael goes as far as to say he’d like to set up a Zoom “studio” in the office in the future, and says he would even hire a professional AV crew again if he had a very big hearing or a virtual trial.
Malorie comments on how surprised she was that utilizing multiple camera angles made such a big difference in the presentation engagement. Michael agrees, and explains how he first heard of this concept from Mark Lanier who utilizes a 3-camera setup for his depositions. When showing depo footage in trial, Lanier will only show the same camera angle for 7 seconds. (This is how they do it in the news media to keep the audience engaged.) If virtual trials move forward, these concepts will all need to be considered to effectively produce a dynamic virtual experience which holds the jurors’ attention.
Malorie then asks Michael a question which must be on everyone’s mind, how did you keep your energy up for 6 ½ straight hours of speaking to a camera without a live audience? Michael notes how similar this was to presenting in a courtroom – you can be absolutely exhausted, but as soon as you step in the room, “you’re on.” He also explains how you can’t be high energy the entire time without coming off frantic and stressing your audience out. The key is to have a range of highs and lows, which serves to conserve your energy and make the highs more impactful.
This type of energy management has taken Michael years to master, and he shares an insightful story from a trial 15 years ago where he learned an important lesson – even if you can’t say everything you want to, you need to slow down and make it about the listener.
Michael goes on to explain his mindset change through the teachings of Carl Bettinger in the book “Twelve Heroes, One Voice.” He used to think it was his job to win the case, but now he knows that’s the jury’s job. And by incorporating this mindset, it’s abundantly clear that the jury deeply understanding the case is much more important than you saying everything you want to say. Malorie then describes her own journey through this, when she was told she speaks very loudly when she’s telling a story she’s passionate about. She realized this comes off as abrasive when the jury isn’t there with her yet and has worked to consciously change this.
Another strategy Michael used to manage his energy during the presentation was the strategic use of PowerPoint slides. He incorporated a variety of both “busy” slides filled with information and simple slides with just a topic or phrase. While presenting the information dense slides, he could be lower energy. But when there was a simple slide, he knew he had to be high energy to carry that portion of the presentation.
This leads Michael and Malorie to discuss the larger applicability of these tactics in the courtroom. When presenting in trial, Michael utilizes completely blank slides in his PowerPoints when he wants the jury to be focused on him. While they both agree more visuals will be necessary in a virtual trial, they recognize the need to incorporate film professionals to make those visuals effective.
On the topic of visuals, they shift to the role of graphics in the courtroom. Michael and Malorie agree that often a simpler graphic is much more effective than an intricate, expensive graphic from a courtroom exhibit company. Michael sums this up perfectly by stating, “If we have to explain the graphic, then we’re losing them.” He’s enjoyed working with his firm’s own graphic artist, and also recommends looking at Upwork and hiring an artist on a contract basis. Malorie adds you can even create some very effective graphics yourself in PowerPoint without spending a dime. This all boils down to the fact that you can’t win a complex case, and while intricate and expensive graphics certainly have their place in the courtroom, they are often overused and frankly a waste of money.
Malorie then shifts the conversation to a discussion of Michael’s upcoming book on trucking law, which Michael previewed during the virtual seminar. One of the major aspects of his research focused on electronic logs for truck drivers, and how they cheat on them. Michael explains how even though truck drivers are allowed to work up to 70 hours a week already, they spend so much time on unpaid activities (deliveries, loading, inspections, etc) they need to cheat in order to make a decent living. Trucking companies have been recommended to pay by the hour or a salary, but they almost always choose to pay their drivers by the mile because it’s better for the company economically.
Michael then describes numerous ways these drivers cheat their logs, including driving on “personal conveyance” time, creating a “phantom driver,” and more which are so intricate they need to be heard to be believed.
Michael and Malorie wrap up the episode with some terrifying facts. Michael spent some time researching drug testing protocols for truck drivers, where he was very disappointed by the current system. Through a plethora of methods, drivers successfully cheat on urine tests and stay on the road. One study indicated as many as 310,000 truck drivers on the road today would fail a hair follicle drug test if given one, to which Malorie replies, “What if that number was commercial airline pilots? People don’t think that way, but they should. These things are huge.”
This podcast also covers Sari de la Motte’s teachings, courtroom models and exhibits, how to catch a truck driver who cheated on their electronic logs, raising the minimum insurance limits for trucking companies, and so much more.
If you’d like to attend Cowen’s Big Rig Boot Camp in 2021 in person or virtually, visit www.BigRigBootCamp.com for live updates.
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121 – Ben Newman – How to Turn 45K in Medical Expenses Into a Million Dollar Verdict
A Trial Lawyer Nation listener since his Defense days, Ben Newman joins the podcast today to discuss his recent $1,076,000 verdict in Collin County, Texas.
At first blush, the facts of this case are problematic. Stemming from a spine injury the plaintiff suffered in a collision at an intersection, the case faced hurdles including, a traditionally conservative venue, a dispute over which party had a green light, an “invisible” injury, minimal therapy and injections, medical expenses of only $45,000, and a defendant that was an individual, not a faceless insurance company or corporate defendant.
Ben credits much of his success in this case to standing on the shoulders of legendary trial lawyers such as Joe Fried, Keith Mitnik, David Ball, and other Trial Lawyer Nation guests. “[The Trial Lawyer Nation] podcast is really what started me down this road of tracking down all of these resources to help me develop my trial technique.”
Ben says he consumed every podcast, video, book, and resource he could find on trial skills and trying cases. “Everything that I do in the courtroom can be traced back to something that I’ve read or something that I’ve seen.”
Join Michael Cowen and Ben Newman as they explore Ben’s incredible verdict and uncover the tools, tactics, and trial skills Ben employed to turn a $50,000 pre-trial offer into more than one million dollars for his client.
Featured Guest
Name: Ben Newman
About: Ben is a civil trial lawyer. He handles a wide range of cases in state and federal courts throughout Texas. For Ben, trial work is not just his profession, it’s an all-consuming passion. He spends countless hours learning the latest trial techniques. And other attorneys frequently hire Ben late in their cases to assist in taking them to trial.
Ben was recognized in Texas Monthly and Thomson Reuters as a Super Lawyer Rising Star. And he’s a lifetime member of the Million Dollar Advocate Forum – a group limited to trial attorneys who have won million-dollar verdicts, awards, and settlements.
Firm: Ben Newman Attorney at Law, PLLC
Connect: LinkedIn | 361-438-1073 | Email
Episode Highlights
[02:46] A passion for trial: Ben Newman discusses his background, his passion for trying cases, and why he made the jump from defense to plaintiff’s work.
[05:39] Cultivating referral sources (and support): Ben shares how he got support from other firms and attorneys after hanging his shingle and was able to begin generating referrals quickly.
[09:54]: Learning the craft of a trial lawyer: Searching for valuable information to listen to during his commute, Ben discovered the Trial Lawyer Nation podcast. He listened to every episode and began digging into the resources Michael and his guest provided.
[14:53] The $1,076,000 verdict: Ben discusses the details of this case, addresses the unique challenges he faced, and share how one specific fact sold the jury.
[24:23] Calling the first witness: How he learned from David Ball to call the witness that can confirm the most facts from your opening statement. This way, you’re keeping the jury on track, sticking to your promises, and doing it quickly.
[29:50] Framing damages in the opening statement: How Ben focused on the invisible injuries, used an analogy from David Ball, and the per diem damage model.
[36:17] The nuances of the trial: The important role lay witnesses played, trusting the jury to make an unbiased decision, detailing harms and losses, and sending the case to the jury.
[43:42] Cutting against the stereotypes of injury attorneys: People expect injury attorneys to come to trial aggressive and ready to fight. Flipping the narrative, Ben made a point to be polite and positive to everyone in the courtroom — including the defense lawyers.
[46:25] What’s next for Ben: From trial settings to parachuting in on cases, Ben has a list of things on his agenda. Overall, he’s continuing to learn, improve, and try as many cases as he can.
Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation
☑️ Follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram & LinkedIn.
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In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.
Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.
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117 – Isabella Santellan – How to Build a Referral-Based Practice
When it comes to personal injury law, the client-firm relationship can be fairly transactional. Most clients aren’t talking about their personal injury cases with their network, and lawyers hope that their clients don’t get injured again and become repeat customers.
But when you have mostly transactional, single-case relationships with clients, how can you gain more business? If your personal injury clients aren’t telling their network about you, who will?
One of the most rewarding methods for gaining more business is referral marketing. Creating longstanding attorney referral relationships gives you a pipeline for more cases, helps you build a reputation, and keeps your firm top of mind in the industry. However, in order to succeed with referral-based marketing, you have to cultivate your relationships and think about what the other person wants.
According to Michael Cowen and the team at Cowen Rodriguez Peacock, you have to give back in order to grow your referral-based business. Take referring attorneys out to lunch or to an event that they would enjoy. Or, give them a gift that’s personalized (and doesn’t have your firm’s name or logo on it). However you decide to show gratitude to your referral partners, it’s important that you create a system to follow up, check in every now and then, and continue nurturing that relationship.
Above all, Michael says that it’s important to create a culture of sharing and respect and keep your promises with referring attorneys. You don’t have to take every case that comes your way, and you can’t guarantee the outcome of a case. You can, however, promise to work hard, keep clients informed, and honor the deal you made.
In episode 117, Isabella Santellan, the Marketing Assistant at Cowen Rodriguez Peacock, asks Michael Cowen all of the essential questions about building a referral-based business and tending to referral relationships. Listen to this episode of Trial Lawyer Nation to hear Michael’s advice on building a referral network and nurturing relationships, turning down referral cases, and simplifying the referral process for your firm.
Featured Guest
Name: Isabella Santellan
About: Isabella Santellan is the Marketing Assistant at Cowen Rodriguez Peacock. She was born and raised in San Antonio, TX and recently received her B.B.A in Management from the University of Texas at San Antonio. As the Marketing Assistant, Isabella runs the firm’s social media, helps plan events, and works to ensure they provide an unforgettable experience to everyone they work with. In her free time, Isabella enjoys traveling, golfing, and spending time with her family.
Company: Cowen Rodriguez Peacock
Connect: LinkedIn
Key Points
Top takeaways from this episode
- Start with the people you already know (and don’t be too picky about cases). It’s difficult to come out of law school and have the reputation and network needed to create a referral-based business. Michael Cowen suggests you get your foot in the door by being hungry, humble, and persistent. Take cases from those who are already in your network and expand your business from there.
- Give your referring attorneys what they want. It’s important to stay top of mind when you’re building a referral-based business. How do you do this? Michael says you need to give back to your referral partners. Take your referring attorneys to lunch or to an event that they might enjoy. You could also give them a call, send a handwritten thank you note, or give them a gift (without your firm’s name or logo on it). However you show gratitude, you have to do so with the other person in mind.
- Nurture your existing referrals. When trying to build a referral-based business, many firms make the mistake of moving on to new referrals without nurturing existing partnerships. But the key is to create longstanding relationships with attorney referrals. It’s much harder to convince someone new to send you the first case, and it’s more fruitful to put effort into the connections that are already sending business your way.
Episode Highlights
[02:40] The foundation of great attorney referral relationships: The key to establishing great referral relationships is nurturing your connections, setting expectations upfront, and making sure you stay top of mind.
[06:05] The three things a referring lawyer or co-counsel wants: Every referring lawyer or co-counsel wants as much money as possible, as quickly as possible, without client complaints. Michael Cowen breaks down the details of how to achieve this.
[07:27] How to keep a referring lawyer’s attention: Michael shares Cowen Rodriguez Peacock’s strategies for keeping a referring lawyer’s attention and making sure they choose you over competitors.
[09:07] Turning down a referral’s case: The number one step to respectfully turn down a referral’s case is to do it swiftly. It’s hard to say no, but it’s better than accepting a case that you’ll later regret. Michael also suggests directing a case to a different firm and offering a possible solution.
[12:00] What you can and can’t guarantee to a referring lawyer: You can’t guarantee the outcome of a case, but you can promise that you’ll work hard and keep the team informed about the details of a case.
[13:13] How a new attorney can build their referral network: Start with people you already know. From there, you can build out your network and run your business on referrals. Especially when starting out, you have to get your foot in the door — you can’t be too picky about cases until you build your reputation.
[18:30] Michael’s experience with referrals: Michael shares his advice for working with referring lawyers and developing your referral process. He also talks about the big mistakes he made early in his career and how you can avoid those same mistakes.
[25:32] Simplifying the referral process: The key to simplifying the process for referring attorneys is to remove the bottlenecks. If you’re busy, put them in contact with someone else on your team who can give them the time and attention they need. For Michael, getting clear on criteria for automatic ‘yeses’ and ‘nos’ can help simplify the process as well.
[26:51] Other methods to gain referrals: Michael explains how his seminar, Big Rig Boot Camp, and his podcast create a referral funnel and generate more business.
[30:43] What to do after you win the referral: It can be tempting to constantly look for new referrals, but Michael advises you to spend more time and effort on your existing referral relationships.
Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation
☑️ Follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram & LinkedIn.
☑️ Subscribe to Trial Lawyer Nation on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube.
In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.
Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.
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137 – How Michael Leizerman Won $18 million in a Tough Case
As a trucking trial lawyer, if you are compassionate, people can walk all over you and you won’t get good results, you need to be both fierce and compassionate.
On this episode of Trial Lawyer Nation, Michael Cowen and Michael Leizerman discuss the ins and outs of wrongful death litigation. Leizerman draws on his experience as a truck accident lawyer and shares the strategies he used to win a recent $18 million verdict.
He emphasizes the need to have open communication with the victim’s family and draw on their love for the victim. He also stresses that while the client comes first, it is also important to create a compassionate atmosphere by treating the defendant with fairness and compassion. However this compassion needs to be accompanied with fierceness.
Tune in for an in-depth discussion on litigating wrongful death cases, and learn how to draw out the story from the victim’s family, cross-examine defendants, and use a combination of compassion and fierceness to build a strong case.
Featured Guest
Name: Michael Leizerman
About: Michael Leizerman is a founder of The Law Firm for Truck Safety, which handles truck accident litigation across the United States. He is the co-founder of the Academy of Truck Accident Attorneys (ATAA). He concentrates his practice in select catastrophic injury truck collision cases across the country.
Michael was the first Chair of AAJ’s Trucking Litigation Group. He is the author of the treatise Litigating Truck Accident Cases. Michael has taken 15 truck and bus cases to trial since 2006. He has received record-breaking truck accident settlements and verdicts across the country, including multiple verdicts with punitive damages. Michael is also the author of the Trial Guides book The Zen Lawyer: Winning with Mindfulness.
Company: The Law Firm for Truck Safety LLP
Episode Highlights
[02:55] Handling the case in a way that is healing and cathartic: There is usually a lot of pressure to settle wrongful death cases because of the fear of retraumatizing the client. However, an attitude readjustment can help. Talking to the client from day one and discussing outcome goals is important.
[04:50] Spend a lot of time with clients before depositions: In wrongful death cases it is important to prepare clients to talk about the victim with love, since they are the experts on their relationship with the victim.
[07:32] The trial can serve as a healing process: One can be a compassionate lawyer by wishing well for all beings. While there is a duty to the client, you need not be harmful to the defendant. It is also important to help the victim’s family keep hope alive.
[11:43] Getting yourself in the mindset to be present for the client: Team up with other lawyers in the firm so that you can take a break, or take breaks when the client needs them. Meeting clients at their homes—a place where clients are comfortable–helps them open up. By being willing to enter the client’s world you can discover things that transcend demographics.
[17:02] The death of Dylan Monty, a 21 year old: The way the facts are presented can help with showing accountability, habit, and fault.
[22:22] Being fierce and compassionate: While some situations require a lawyer to call out the opposing party, lawyers also need to show compassion.
[28:00] Palpable Loss: By sharing stories during direct examination, the jury can be shown what was taken from the victim’s family.
[34:31] Cross-examining with compassion: Thanking the truck driver for owning up to his part while asking what he is actually owning up to, and having the victim’s family sit out of the courtroom during cross-examination created a compassionate atmosphere.
[40: 00] Traits of a great lawyer: Listening, presence, being vulnerable, and having the courage to stand up are the skills of great lawyers.
[42:00] Growing The Law Firm for Truck Safety: To build the firm, Leizerman focused on choosing partners who shared his same values, were trucking lawyers, and who were both compassionate and fierce.
[44:17] ATAA: The Academy of Truck Accident Attorneys is a group of over 1,200 lawyers and paralegals that focuses on plaintiff’s trucking work. Education, safety advocacy, and sharing knowledge are its primary goals.
[52:02] Zen Lawyer Workshop: Leizerman, along with others, will be teaching at a retreat and workshop in October. For more information see thezenlawyer.com.
Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation
☑️ Follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram & LinkedIn.
☑️ Subscribe to Trial Lawyer Nation on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and YouTube.
In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.
Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.
