Legal Podcast

Think of focus groups as macro – exposing holes in the case and main issues from the jurors’ perspectives. Think of big data as micro – revealing the win rate, the ask, the possible outcome in terms of money.

In her second visit to Trial Lawyer Nation, Jessica Brylo, owner and lead litigation consultant at Trial Dynamics, outlines the utility of both tools. The conversation with host Michael Cowen dovetails with Jessica’s first appearance on the show, when she shared her insights about how jurors make decisions and how to frame cases persuasively. In this visit, Jessica discusses when and what to expect in hiring a consultant. She also previews her three programs at the upcoming TLU Vegas: lectures on focus groups and case framing and a workshop on case framing, where participants will actually work through a case. 

Email Jessica to learn more about how she can help you.

Featured Guest

Name: Jessica Brylo

About: Jessica Brylo is the owner and lead litigation consultant at Trial Dynamics, a national litigation consulting firm dedicated to plaintiff’s civil and criminal defense cases. She specializes in case framing, jury research, focus groups, mock trials, big data studies, opening statement development, witness preparation, and jury selection. Over the past two decades, Jessica has spoken to thousands of jurors and conducted hundreds of mock trials, the results of which she uses to guide case strategy and framing on cases ranging from soft tissue injuries to nine-figure catastrophic injury cases and multi-billion dollar class-action lawsuits.

Company: Trial Dynamics on Instagram

Connect: Email | LinkedIn

Episode Highlights 

[05:48] Big Data Starts Here: In the beginning, the attorney fills out a template describing the case. That’s sent to 300-some jurors, whose written responses are compiled in an Excel spreadsheet.

[13:31] Big Data v. Focus Groups: They’re two different things. Jury consultants guide lawyers on which tool is the most effective and budget-friendly.

[21:37] Making It Count: A jury consultant’s service to run big data costs money, but spending that money on the frontend often yields results on the backend: illuminating the value of your case. 

[26:03] If You Can’t Do Both: If your budget allows either a focus group or big data, Jessica recommends using a focus group. Here’s why.

[30:51] Mock Trials: There are several methods and uses for this tool, and they can offer advantages in terms of preparing a client who may be nervous or even overconfident.

[35:02] The DIY Challenge: Lawyers who want to do their own focus groups should be prepared to spend lots of “elbow grease” to build an effective, representative database.

Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation

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In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.

Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.

From October 16 to 19, Caesars Palace will be the site of Trial Lawyers University, an in-depth educational opportunity for lawyers who want to sharpen their skills, network, and perhaps – if they’re brave – belt out tunes at a karaoke bar.

Trial Lawyers University founder Dan Ambrose offers a preview of what’s in store at TLU Vegas during this conversation with host Michael Cowen. He explains how he has designed the conference so that participants have training choices that suit their knowledge gaps and goals. “I try to put my heart and soul into it,” Dan says of the rigorous planning. “Just like you put your heart and soul into a trial. Every conference is like my trial.”

Want to attend TLU Vegas? Register here. 

Featured Guest

Name: Dan Ambrose

About: Dan is a Las Vegas-based personal injury attorney who launched Trial Lawyers University during the pandemic. The next conference, TLU Vegas, will be held from October 16 to 19 at Caesars Palace.

Company: Trial Lawyers University

Connect: TLU on X, Facebook, Instagram & LinkedIn

Episode Highlights 

[02:17] An Idea Born in Darkness: Trial Lawyers University evolved during the pandemic, when Dan and a friend discussed how they could give back to the community because “people remember who was there for them in their time of darkness.”

[05:31] Learning How to Win: Lessons learned from an early career as a criminal defense lawyer. Today, Dan’s mission is to help lawyers avoid losing.

[09:10] Emotional State Control: If you say “Good morning” without warmth, your audience’s unconscious detectors buzz. Something’s weird. That’s why Dan teaches lawyers how to be aware of what they’re projecting in the courtroom. 

[12:21] Are You Ready for Your Close-Up?: If you join a TLU boot camp, be prepared to videotape yourself doing presentations. The preparation is critical, as Dan explains.

[19:26] Building a Connection: Dan’s three strategies that lawyers can use to connect with their jury.

[27:38] The TLU Difference: After years of attending conferences, Dan styled TLU to reflect his vision of what makes an effective educational environment. It starts with the exhibit hall. Here’s why.

[28:33] Filling the Knowledge Gap: From lectures to workshops to networking, TLU Vegas is designed to offer enough choices so that anybody can target their gap in knowledge – and fill it.

[32:33] Bringing People Together: How Dan builds time at TLU so that attendees and instructors can learn, have fun, and even refer business.

Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation

☑️ Follow us on X, Facebook, Instagram & LinkedIn.

☑️ Subscribe to Trial Lawyer Nation on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube.

In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.

Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.

“Statistics suck. Stories stick.”

For Bruce Inosencio, this motto proved a north star guiding his case against a Michigan nursing home. With host Michael Cowen, Bruce acknowledges the challenge he faced: How to prove that the facility owed damages when the patient was an elderly, sick woman? 

To do so, he and his legal team connected with the jurors so they’d be invested in the story of the 87-year-old woman’s life. He combatted the defense argument that an elderly woman’s life was somehow less valuable. The statistics of her experience at the facility mattered, but the stories that Bruce told drove the verdict. They awarded $6 million to her surviving daughters, a record in Michigan. Tune in to hear Bruce explain why the story, not statistics, won the day.

Featured Guest

Name: Bruce A. Inosencio, Jr.

About: Bruce Inosencio represents clients in truck crash cases, nursing home abuse and neglect, business disputes, and construction claims. A lifelong resident of Jackson, Michigan, he established his own law firm in 2000 after having worked as an associate attorney for four years at another local firm. 

In 2009, he and Kristina Fisk formed Inosencio & Fisk, PLLC. They have offices in Cheboygan, Michigan; Austin, Texas; and Naples, Florida.

Company: Inosencio & Fisk, PLLC 

Connect: LinkedIn

Episode Highlights 

[13:24] Invest in Lifelong Learning: Educational opportunities may cost money and time, but  they also make you a better lawyer. A member of Bruce’s team took a program about advanced depositions, and it “meant everything” in their case against a nursing home.

[16:43] Independent at 87: After a stroke, a vibrant 87-year-old woman went to a facility for speech and other therapy. Her daughters expected that she would return home.

[18:41] The Challenge: How to convince a jury to award economic loss for the death of an 87-year old? The answer started with focus groups.

[23:01] The Nursing Home’s Failure: Relying on outdated policies, nursing home staff missed important signs that their patient was suffering.

[23:38] Rules of the Road: It wasn’t a case where a trucker failed to follow federal safety regulations. But Bruce applied a similar approach – in this case, showing that the nursing home failed to follow established standards of care.

[27:36] Flipping the Defense on Its Head: The nursing home knew she was old and sick. So why, then, take her in?

[36:02] Two Heads Are Better than One: At Bruce’s table, he strategically involved several members of his team so that the jury understood it “wasn’t just me” trying the case.

[39:23] Connecting with Jurors: From faith to the workplace, jurors have their own life stories. Plaintiffs’ lawyers should connect with them.

Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation

☑️ Follow us on X, Facebook, Instagram & LinkedIn.

☑️ Subscribe to Trial Lawyer Nation on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube.

In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.

Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.

Sean Claggett is on a mission to change the way trial lawyers use data so they don’t leave billions on the table.

The author of JuryBall: The Big Data Revolution is Here, Sean, joins Michael Cowen to discuss how using focus groups and big data have helped him learn from early losses and helped his clients get what they deserve. “Asking for too much money is dangerous, but if you don’t ask for enough money, you lose too,” says Sean. Tune in as Sean shares what big data has taught plaintiffs’ lawyers and hear about two real-world examples of how he used big data to win large verdicts for his injured clients, including how he asked the jury for $1B.

Featured Guest

Name: Sean Claggett

About: Sean Claggett is an established Las Vegas personal injury attorney and handles difficult cases across the country. Sean founded Claggett & Sykes Law Firm in 2005, and is the firm’s lead trial lawyer. Sean has also co-authored the book JuryBall: The Big Data Revolution is Here, along with Alicia Campbell and John Campbell. 

In 2017, Sean was recognized by his fellow trial lawyers of the Nevada Justice Association as Nevada’s Trial Attorney of the Year. In 2023, Sean and the Claggett & Sykes Law Firm trial team in New Mexico won a record $485 million jury verdict against a national healthcare company, Acadia Healthcare, Inc., for its involvement in placing children in a foster care home with a known sexual predator.

Company: Claggett & Sykes Law Firm

Connect: LinkedIn | Email

Episode Highlights 

[06:29] The First Win: Sean Claggett didn’t win his first personal injury trial. In fact, after he lost his first trial, he took a break from personal injury law. But when he re-entered the arena, he came up victorious. Hear about how Sean learned from his loss and used what he learned to become a winning trial lawyer.

[08:37] The Benefits of Focus Groups:  Focus groups allow plaintiffs’ attorneys to learn how the average juror feels not only about the specifics of a given case, but how they might feel about specific facts and items applicable to multiple cases. Regular focus groups improve an attorney’s understanding of how juries think and allow them to better advocate for their clients.

[13:13] Big Data: By compiling and analyzing information from focus groups, plaintiffs’ lawyers can craft better arguments and also learn the true value of a case. Knowing the value of a case increases the odds of a good recovery for clients, either through settlement or verdict.

[20:40] Helping Others Help Their Clients: Sean understands the value of teaching other attorneys how to use big data and other tools so that they can better represent their own clients. Sean and his team do a lot of consulting with attorneys on their cases to make sure everything is dialed in. 

[28:55] $485M Verdict for Foster Care Child: A child was raped while in the foster care system, and the foster care treatment facility knew of the rapes. Using big data to properly value the case, Sean turned down small offers and ultimately received some justice for his client in the form of a $485 million verdict.

[36:20] $38M Verdict in Child Death Case: Pretrial big data analytics showed a child death case to be worth $38 million with 27% comparative negligence. After applying those analyses to the España v. Republic Services case, Sean was able to get a verdict for exactly what the big data showed after rejecting smaller settlement offers.

Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation

☑️ Follow us on X, Facebook, Instagram & LinkedIn.

☑️ Subscribe to Trial Lawyer Nation on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube.

In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.

Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.

In trial, you have to be ready and just accept the fact that things are never going to be perfect. They’re never going to go the way you planned it. 

In this episode of Trial Lawyer Nation, Michael Cowen and Malorie Peacock share their strategies (as well as the hiccups they overcame) from their recent $4M verdict on a trucking wrongful death case, where only 10% of the fault was put on their client for rear-ending a tractor trailer. They detail how they “armed their experts” so that the jury wasn’t skeptical of expert testimony in this expert-heavy case. They also share how they successfully minimized comparative fault, and how they presented damages in a way that made an emotional impact. The episode wraps up with a discussion on the value of the healing aspect of the trial process for clients. 

Don’t miss out! Big Rig Bootcamp takes place on July 12, 2024 in San Antonio, Texas. Register at bigrigbootcamp.com.  

Featured Guest

Name: Malorie J Peacock

About: Malorie J Peacock is a Partner at Cowen Rodriguez Peacock. She was born and raised in San Antonio, Texas and received her J.D. from the University of Houston Law Center. During her time with Cowen Rodriguez Peacock, Malorie has worked on numerous commercial vehicle, trucking, and wrongful death cases. Malorie brings close attention to detail, commitment to finding safety issues and areas of neglect, continued utilization of technology and cutting-edge visuals in cases, along with a sincere passion to help those who have been hurt, to each and every case.

Company: Cowen Rodriguez Peacock

Connect: LinkedIn

Episode Highlights 

[02:18] 30,000-Foot View of the Case:  A driver of an 18 wheeler ran over something in a roadway that disconnected her airlines to her braking system in her truck. The driver panicked and stopped her vehicle on a major highway in Dallas at 10pm at night. Michael and Malorie’s client’s son didn’t see her in the roadway, and unfortunately, ran into her and died. 

[07:15] Rehearsing Jury Selection and Opening Statement: In order to be seamless and avoid using a bunch of notes, you have to practice, says Malorie. Michael explains how they used the rehearsals to test their advocacy. Did people understand them? Was their story persuasive? Was their theory convincing? These rehearsals were right before trial and separate from the focus groups they did on the case.

[10:39] Challenges in Jury Selection: Due to the Court’s orders, Michael and Malorie couldn’t talk about the facts of the case and they couldn’t even say it was a trucking case or a wrongful death case. The judge was also still following COVID restrictions, so with social distancing between jurors and Michael and Malorie speaking from a podium, it was difficult to connect with jurors. However, they pivoted their strategy and made it work. 

[21:05] The First Witness: Michael and Malorie called the defendant driver first. “We couldn’t call her a liar,” says Michael. “The jury needed to, through the course of the trial, come to their own conclusion that she was not telling the truth.”

[24:52] Strategy for an Expert-Intense Case: With all the expert testimony, Michael and Malorie didn’t want the jury to think ‘well, they’re just saying whatever they want because they paid them.’ To avoid that, Michael and Malorie armed their experts with anchors and testing. 

[27:15] Demonstrating Airbrake Function: Michael and Malorie did their own testing where they got an 18 wheeler with a tractor and a trailer, and they pulled an airbrake when it was going 50-something miles per hour to show that it would not just make the truck immediately come to a stop, contrary to the defense’s story.

[31:54] Motivating the Jury to Award Damages: Malorie explains how you want enough witnesses to tell your story, but not so much that it’s emotionally exhausting for the jury, because if you exhaust the jury then they get annoyed with you.

[39:53] Comparative Fault Argument: Michael shares his unique approach of comparing the time each party had in the accident, which helped minimize their client’s percentage of fault.

[42:08] Damages Presentation: Malorie vividly describes her method of illustrating damages by physically tearing a picture of the deceased, to symbolize the persistent pain experienced by the parents.

[44:43] The Healing Aspect of Trial: Michael and Malorie touch on the healing aspect of the trial for the client, emphasizing the importance of clients being heard and validated.

Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation

☑️ Follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram & LinkedIn.

☑️ Subscribe to Trial Lawyer Nation on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and YouTube.

In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.

Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.