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In this Trial Lawyer Nation podcast, Michael Cowen sits down with 25+ year veteran of the legal industry and founder of eDiscovery CoCounsel, Chad Roberts.
In a legal world where we are document heavy and paperless, eDiscovery sets out to avoid the abundance of obstacles trial lawyers encounter when in search of documents, be it the dump-truck effect of getting volumes of information or the paid search games that are played.
Primarily, people think about documentary evidence which is stored in a digital format, to which the rules have somewhat of a bias toward that type of framework, which tends to be the biggest challenge, explains Chad. He goes on to describe that it is not so much the format by which these documents are held, but rather the sheer volume of content that is available. For those of us who are not experts in e-discovery, not knowing the right questions to ask to receive what is sought after or even what is available to ask for, can make a case challenging. Chad points out one of the biggest “tectonic shifts” in the advantage/disadvantage for discovery really occurred back in December of 2015 with the new Rule 26, pertaining to the proportionality factors that came about under that rule, of which Chad dives deep on along with the ways around it.
Chad continues to reveal the dirty little secret that the more you know about the information structure and how documentation is filed, the easier it is to deconstruct the arguments of it being tremendously difficult for the defense to compile what you are looking for … which, coincidentally, is enormously easy for them to produce. Furthermore, Chad describes the other “human nature” side of the story where attorneys psychologically feel that they are out of their element, mostly because they don’t do excessive amounts of document productions, and are more likely to agree to things that are not best for a case.
Ideally, as Chad describes, his firm is typically brought in at the beginning of a case and start with Electronic Storage Information (ESI) protocols, where the front-end platform is established through discussions regarding agreement of the mutual expectations of those involved in the case, and this, of course, is the best line of defense in counteracting the diversions played by opposing counsel.
The podcast concludes with Michael and Chad discussing the types of cases that make the most sense to bring in a firm such as eDiscovery; and the description that Chad offers on why even the biggest of firms would likely have a significant flaw in their practice if they had the capacity of his firm is enlightening and makes perfect sense when you hear it.
Background on Chad Roberts
Chad Roberts is a seasoned trial lawyer with a career focused on technology, complex litigation, and multi-district litigation. He has been a litigation partner at an AmLaw 20 multi-national law firm as well as a small, boutique trial firm, winning multi-million dollar verdicts as lead trial counsel. His focus at eDiscovery CoCounsel, pllc includes predictive coding technology, discovery jurisprudence, and large scale litigation management. Chad received an Engineering Science degree from the Georgia Institute of Technology and graduated with high honors from the Florida State University College of Law, where he was an Associate Editor of the Florida State University Law Review.
For more info on Chad Roberts visit: www.edcclaw.com
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140 – Maxey Scherr – From Theater to Trial: Maxey Scherr on Starting Strong, Establishing Your Reputation, and Letting Go
Trial lawyers can’t be afraid of failure. It is often by refusing default thinking and defying expectations that a trial lawyer gets the first big win that sets the tone for their career.
On this episode of Trial Lawyer Nation, Michael Cowen speaks with Maxey Scherr–a Texas trial lawyer, board certified in truck accident law–who recently started her own law firm and found immediate success with a $10.65M verdict against Swift Transportation.
Listen to Maxey explain how learning and preparation have been integral to some of her biggest wins, why it’s important for a trial lawyer to have a reputation for trying cases–and how in the end, getting a good result stems from seeing the case through the jury’s eyes and placing your trust in them.
Featured Guest
Name: Maxey Scherr
About: Maxey Scherr is the founder of the Scherr Law Firm in El Paso, Texas. She has practiced for more than 14 years and has over 40 jury trials resulting in multi-figure verdicts, including a $10.65 million truck accident verdict in the firm’s first trial. Ms. Scherr is Board Certified by the NBTA in Truck Accident Law and is a member of various boards and organizations focused on trucking law. In addition to a law degree from Texas Tech, she earned a bachelor’s in Psychology from UMass-Boston and undertook postgraduate work in Neuroscience at Harvard.
Company: Scherr Law Firm
Connect: LinkedIn
Episode Highlights
[3:54] Blazing new roads: Maxey has attended every ATAA Annual Symposium. She was one of the first woman attorneys to gain board certification in truck accident law and is continually studying and learning to improve her craft.
[8:46] Theater kid to trial lawyer: Maxey’s background in theater has played a role in her courtroom success by preparing her to confront an audience and face her fears using the methods of psychodrama.
[10:51] Setting a precedent: A trial lawyer’s reputation is based in part on having a reputation for trying cases. Settling low or quickly sets a standard for future cases, but so does willingness and commitment to trying cases. “If you’re going to accept the case, try it,” says Maxey.
[17:18] Starting strong: When starting Scherr Law Firm, Maxey brought over a former client who suffered a TBI in a truck accident and, after a $300,000 settlement offer, ended up securing the first eight figure verdict in El Paso since the 1990s.
[24:48] Never TMI about TBI: Brain injuries can be difficult to detect and argue to the defense. But with a background in neuroscience, Maxey stays up to date on the rapidly evolving neurological research field, using the latest findings to counteract the defense’s misrepresentations of these “invisible injuries.”
[37:05] Legal logistics: One of the proudest moments of Maxey’s career came from representing Mexican nationals in a truck accident case against FedEx and a U.S. government contractor that involved cross-border litigation challenges.
[49:45] Parenting, litigating, and trust: As a mother, Maxey has learned to let go and trust her son to choose his own path–a lesson that has translated to the courtroom and trusting the jury to make the right decision.
Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation
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In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.
Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.
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112 – Krystal Cantu-Cuate – The Healing Journey: Facing Traumas and Truths
On this special episode of Trial Lawyer Nation, Michael welcomes his favorite client of all time, Krystal Cantu-Cuate. Like many clients, Michael was introduced to Krystal under difficult circumstances. Krystal was traveling a car that experienced a tire blowout. The blowout resulted in a tragic accident, and the amputation of Kyrstal’s right arm. As is often the case, this was only the beginning of a long and emotional journey.
When she first saw her family members gathered in the hospital waiting room, they were crying and expressing fear and apprehension about her future. In that moment, Krystal decided she was going to be strong for them and defy their fears and worries.
With the driving force to be strong for her family and take control of her situation, Krystal began working tirelessly to achieve and overcome. Within a month of her accident, Krystal was back in the gym resuming her CrossFit training.
Behind that incredible tenacity the world saw, a much darker story was playing out. Krystal wasn’t okay. The trauma was silently wearing on her. She admits she was in denial, repressing difficult thoughts, emotions, and feelings about the accident. And, because she was lacking the tools and knowledge to process the trauma she went through, inner struggle, pain, and repressed emotions became her normal. As litigation wore on, and maintaining the Superwoman exterior became more difficult, Krystal’s mental health challenges began to consume her.
While the journey has more bumps than Krystal was willing to admit to herself in the early years, this story has a happy ending. With Michael’s help, Krystal admitted to herself that is was okay not to be okay, made her mental health a priority, and sought out the support she needed to continue her healing journey.
Join us on this new episode of Trial Lawyer Nation for this emotional story of trauma, bravery, hard truths, and healing with guest Krystal Cantu-Cuate, an ex-CrossFit adaptive athlete and keynote speaker on mental health.
Featured Guest
Name: Krystal Cantu-Cuate
About: Krystal Cantu-Cuate is an ex-CrossFit adaptive athlete, keynote speaker on mental health, part-time bridal stylist, mother, and wife. After a tragic car accident in 2013 that resulted in the amputation of her right arm, Krystal went on to live her life in the face of adversity. Becoming one of the first competitive CrossFit adaptive athletes, Krystal traveled all over the US competing — and inspiring thousands while doing so. In 2016, she gave birth to her son, Joaquin, and left her competitive career. In 2021, Krystal was faced with her biggest challenge yet: mental health. After a traumatic experience with crippling anxiety, Krystal was faced with challenges that called for uncomfortable conversations. Krystal is now a keynote speaker on mental health and its importance. She continues using her own personal experiences to help others who may be struggling.
Connect: LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook
Key Points
Top takeaways from this episode
- It’s okay to ask for help. Asking for help doesn’t make you weak — it actually shows how strong you are. Whether you have a case in litigation or you’re fighting inner battles, it’s important to seek help. Lawyers and experts in the field can guide you through the litigation process and ease your worries. Close friends and family can give you the support needed to work through personal struggles. No matter your circumstance, always remember that you don’t have to go through it alone.
- A healing journey requires honesty and bravery. Healing is never easy, and it’s not a linear process. You have your ups, your downs, and everything in between. But what will get you through is honesty and bravery. You must be honest with yourself about where you are and what you need to start healing. Once you understand this, you need the courage to take on whatever challenge comes your way.
- Trust yourself. Nobody knows you better than yourself, although it’s easy to forget sometimes. In her darkest days, Krystal’s husband, Daniel, reminded her, “No matter what’s happening in your head right now, don’t forget — don’t forget who you are… Just trust yourself.” Trusting yourself and your strength can help keep you out of a downward spiral.
Episode Highlights
[02:06] The tragic story that changed everything: Krystal Cantu-Cuate shares the story of her car accident in 2013 that resulted in the amputation of her arm (and the beginning of her work with Michael Cowen).
[04:48] The litigation process: Krystal recounts what the litigation process was like, the harsh questions she faced in the deposition room, and what it was like dealing with foreign language and legalese documents.
[07:39] Knowing your strengths: Despite the severity of the situation, Krystal trusted in Michael, continued her CrossFit training as a form of therapy, and stuck to her strengths. What drove her to take on this superwoman persona?
[13:45] Dealing with the difficulties of the case: Krystal opens up about her fears of facing the memories during the witness preparation.
[16:18] Using CrossFit to push through: Krystal couldn’t fathom someone telling her she couldn’t do something — so she continued her CrossFit training. She doesn’t regret doing CrossFit because it kept her body healthy and her mind preoccupied.
[20:07] Struggling behind closed doors: Despite her fierce positivity, Krystal lost a lot of confidence in herself and faced a ton of anxiety after the accident.
[22:28] Finding a breakthrough: Krystal shares what finally led her to a breakthrough after a traumatic anxiety spiral. From suicidal thoughts to medication, Krystal faced a turning point that led to her healing journey.
[33:15] Using therapy in your healing journey: Michael and Krystal discuss their experiences seeing a therapist and why you have to be courageous to get honest. They also dive into the stigma of therapy and their thoughts on removing the stigma.
[35:31] The truth about intrusive thoughts: Krystal talks about naming her suicidal thoughts, telling her family about them, and why suicidal and intrusive thoughts are more common than you’d think.
[41:43] Not staying quiet: Instead of holding in her thoughts, feelings, and pain, Krystal speaks up. Whether it’s to her husband or therapist, Krystal shares what she’s feeling — despite how uncomfortable it can be.
[44:39] Receiving support: Krystal shares how her husband, Daniel, was an essential part of her healing.
[47:45] Krystal’s speaking initiatives: How is Krystal using her speaking to help others going through a similar situation? She’s sharing all of the details.
[51:08] Leading through tough situations: Krystal shares advice for attorneys on how to companion people through their difficult journeys.
Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation
☑️ Follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram & LinkedIn.
☑️ Subscribe to Trial Lawyer Nation on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube.
In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.
Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.
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139 – Malorie Peacock – How Michael and Malorie Got a $17.5 Million Verdict in a Tough Case (Part 1)
There’s data going all the way back to the 1970s showing that people have lost a leg while operating a forklift. Not only do these leg crush injuries keep occurring, but it’s the most common injury with a stand-up forklift. It’s a big problem. However, the industry has been able to avoid having to change anything because they’ve been able to get the standard written to support their design decisions.
On this episode of Trial Lawyer Nation, Michael Cowen and Malorie Peacock discuss how they overcame the odds to win $17.5M in damages for their client in a case against a forklift manufacturer. All this occurred in a case where the defendant said they’d never even pay $100k.
Tune in to this part one, of a two-part series, as Michael and Malorie discuss how they established liability in the case. What was one of the key winning trial strategies? Not getting sucked into disproving every argument the defense made.
Don’t miss out! Michael’s book, Big Rig Justice: A Comprehensive Guide to Maximizing Value in Truck Accident Cases is now available!
Featured Guest
Name: Malorie J. Peacock
About: Malorie J. Peacock is a Partner at Cowen Rodriguez Peacock. She was born and raised in San Antonio, Texas and received her J.D. from the University of Houston Law Center. During her time with Cowen Rodriguez Peacock, Malorie has worked on numerous commercial vehicle, trucking, and wrongful death cases. Malorie brings close attention to detail, commitment to finding safety issues and areas of neglect, continued utilization of technology and cutting-edge visuals in cases, along with a sincere passion to help those who have been hurt, to each and every case.
Company: Cowen Rodriguez Peacock
Connect: LinkedIn
Episode Highlights
[04:39] Case background: The client operated a stand-up forklift, lost control of the forklift and crashed, resulting in a leg amputation. These types of incidents occur once every eight days, but the industry has been winning trials on defect allegations for decades. Up until Michael and Malorie’s trial, the forklift industry was undefeated in the 2000s.
[08:38] Understanding how a forklift works and the problematic design: The forklift is operated standing up, with one foot on a dead man’s pedal, one hand on a lever, and the other on a tiller. Just a minor loss of balance from someone steering a little too hard, or unexpectedly taking their foot off of something, can ultimately result in a crash where a foot gets crushed by a 7,000 pound forklift.
[17:52] Three data sources on injuries: There were incident reports (limited details), an OSHA database (type of injury/equipment but no manufacturer info), and another manufacturer’s data (revealed percentage of injuries). Additionally, one study showed 474 injuries and recommended a door for forklifts.
[21:34] Random test v. peer-reviewed study: Michael and Malorie discuss how they taught the jury the difference and why it mattered in this case.
[36:35] The case was complicated, but strategic decisions made the difference: The client was not properly trained and the employer’s negligence was not considered. However, blaming the client would be unfair, and the focus should be on fixing the design. The defense argued about certification requirements, but it was better, strategically, to embrace the lack of training. Winning the case was a close call.
[40:08] Revealing the truth: Michael and Malorie share why it is essential to read defense cited literature, and how doing so made a difference in their case.
[46:13] Two ways to solve the problem: Michael and Malorie offered two alternative designs to the jury–a door or a seat with a seat belt.
[51:38] Most jurors aren’t familiar with forklifts, so visuals were key: Michael and Malorie used visuals to make things simple–annotated photographs and videos. They tried to use two life-sized forklift compartments—one the way it was and one with a seatbelt, but they wouldn’t fit through the courtroom door. Lesson learned!
[59:17] Preview of part-two: On part-two of this series, Michael and Malorie will discuss damages and how they made it a story–not just about despair–but also a story about love, hope, striving, and overcoming.
Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation
☑️ Follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram & LinkedIn.
☑️ Subscribe to Trial Lawyer Nation on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and YouTube.
In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.
Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.
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