Episode

In 1977, when attorney advertising became legal through the Bates decision, Harlan Schillinger spotted an opportunity that would pioneer an entire industry. In this episode, the self-described “grandfather of legal marketing” shares insights from his nearly five decades of experience with host Michael Cowen. While emphasizing television’s enduring power, Harlan explains how social media and digital strategies have transformed legal marketing, creating both challenges and opportunities. Harlan and Michael explore why authenticity and compassion must remain central to any successful legal marketing approach.

Michael and Malorie welcome listener questions for a new “Ask Michael and Malorie Anything” feature. To submit a question, email Michael.

Featured Guest

Name: Harlan Schillinger

About: Known as the “grandfather of legal marketing,” Harlan entered the field in 1977 following the Bates decision that allowed attorney advertising. With nearly five decades of experience, he pioneered television advertising for attorneys and has helped countless law firms develop effective marketing strategies.

Company: Harlanschillinger.com

Connect: LinkedIn | Facebook

Episode Highlights 

[02:05] Pioneering Legal Marketing: Harlan recounts entering the legal marketing scene in 1977, producing the first television commercials for lawyers in 1978-79.

[05:27] Phone Call Importance: Harlan emphasizes the critical importance of answering the phone properly for both business success and showing compassion to clients on “their worst day.”

[13:52] Television’s Evolution: While still “king,” television has fragmented across countless channels and streaming services, requiring strategic placement rather than simply outspending competitors.

[17:45] “You Get What You Ask For”: Harlan explains that lawyers must carefully craft their messaging to attract the specific types of cases they want.

[20:49] Starting with Limited Budget: For new lawyers with minimal marketing funds, Harlan recommends leveraging social media and nurturing past client relationships through consistent communication.

[27:38] Digital Strategy First: When selecting a digital marketing partner, Harlan advises attorneys to first ask about strategy rather than specific tactics, ensuring alignment with the firm’s goals and voice.

[31:16] Authenticity Matters: Harlan stresses the importance of being yourself in marketing because audiences will see through inauthentic messaging.

[35:51] Fix Your Intake First: Before spending on external marketing, firms must build “bulletproof” intake and conversion systems to prevent client leakage.

[41:10] The Vulnerability Window: Clients are most likely to reconsider their choice of attorney during specific periods: immediately after signing and during case lulls.

[44:01] Culture Defines Success: The culture and character of a law firm ultimately determine its success, affecting how clients feel about their experience regardless of case outcomes.

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In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.

Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.

Host Michael Cowen welcomes back visual trial strategist Amy Hall for a discussion about her work helping lawyers connect with juries through visual displays. As she explains, people remember more of what they see than what they just hear – which makes visuals an important tactic in the courtroom. Her strategy focuses on guiding her clients to distill a case so that they display only important points on visual elements like timelines. 

Michael and Malorie welcome listener questions for a new “Ask Michael and Malorie Anything” feature. To submit a question, email Michael.

Featured Guest

Name: Amy Hall

About: Amy is a visual trial strategist with over 18 years of experience helping trial lawyers create compelling visual presentations. Her background in graphic design and experience across various industries, including the gambling industry, gave her unique insights into decision-making, emotions, and attention that she now applies to litigation strategy.

Company: Visual Trial Strategy | Trial Strategy Academy

Connect: LinkedIn

Episode Highlights 

[04:18] Visual Trial Strategy Defined: Understanding that people are visual creatures, this strategy distills a case in a way that helps jurors connect with it.

[08:33] Pictorial Superiority Concept: It means, simply, that people remember what they see a lot more than they remember what they hear. 

[14:14] Distill! One of the first things Amy asks her lawyer clients to do is prepare a two-page neutral statement on the case. When they complain that the case is too complex to be distilled into two pages, she says: “Keep trying.”

[19:08] Common Visuals: The formula is the “shot across the bow” and should be the first exhibit shown, Amy says. She also describes this suite of three exhibits: the anchor, link, and payoff.

[23:59] Battle of the Experts: Expert testimony should always be accompanied with visuals, Amy says, and she never lets an expert bring their own exhibit.

[28:12] Open-Ended Questions: Lawyers often fear asking jurors open-ended questions. Amy is “obsessed” with them because, she says, jurors will love a lawyer who gives them the freedom to come to their own conclusions.

[34:48] Timelines: They’re important because they represent the plaintiff’s history and the defendant’s decisions. But Amy cautions that timelines must simplify the information so the jury is not confused.

[37:39] At the Beginning: That’s when the plaintiff’s lawyer should start developing their visual strategy. “If you start that process, you are going to eliminate a lot of blind alleys,” Amy says.

[42:16] Five Hours a Day: Amy prefers to work with her clients in blocks – five hours a day for four consecutive days – because distilling a case takes sustained time and energy.

[46:58] AI: Amy welcomes exciting, powerful new technology, but she notes that visual trial strategy is tied to a technology that’s been locked in place for some 25,000 years: the human brain.

Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation

☑️ Follow us on X, Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn.

☑️ Subscribe to Trial Lawyer Nation on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube.

In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.

Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.

In the first installment of their new “Ask Malorie and Michael Anything” feature, host Michael Cowen and colleague Malorie Peacock tackle eight questions from listeners. They offer strategies and tips on topics ranging from launching a career as a personal injury lawyer, to navigating a traumatic brain injury case, to managing doubts about an expert witness.

Have a question for Michael and Malorie? Email Michael.

Featured Guest

Name: Malorie Peacock

About: A name partner at Cowen Rodriguez Peacock, Malorie represents clients who have been injured by the negligence of others. Her experience includes working on commercial vehicle, trucking, and wrongful death cases.

Company: Cowen Rodriguez Peacock

Connect: LinkedIn | X | Facebook | Instagram | YouTube

Episode Highlights 

[05:54] Post-Law School: To a law school student looking past graduation, Michael recommends two strategies for kick-starting a career: a part-time job at a law firm or working at a clinic.

[09:00] Eye Witness: Malorie offers young lawyers another idea to enhance their skills: watching real trials to see how they play out in the real world.

[10:37] Truck Accident Law: Responding to a question about how to become an effective truck accident lawyer, Michael suggests taking advantage of educational opportunities through groups like the Academy of Truck Accident Attorneys. He’ll teach a course for the Academy in Billings, Montana, in May.

[13:17] Taking on TBI: Michael and Malorie outline how they approach the complex issues associated with a client’s traumatic brain injury, particularly a “mild” one. 

[18:41] Three-Legged Stool: The PI attorney must evaluate a case on three factors, Michael explains: liability, damages, and resources.

[23:44] Pro Hac Vice: Michael explains how to avoid falling into procedural traps in districts where you’ve never practiced. “It’s surprising when you practice out of state or in various federal courts how different the rules actually are for different things,” Malorie adds.

[36:24] Doubts: You’ve hired an expert that everyone says is great, but now you have doubts. Michael and Malorie share insights about how to navigate that delicate situation.

Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation

☑️ Follow us on X, Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn.

☑️ Subscribe to Trial Lawyer Nation on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube.

In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.

Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.

Brian Glass started his career at a firm that competed with his father’s, Ben Glass Law. Today, he’s a partner at the firm, where he and his father have carved out their own practices and roles.

Brian visits with host Michael Cowen to share insights about what he’s learned as the firm’s integrator who manages budget, salaries, bonuses, marketing, or anything in the “integrator box.” Tune in for his strategies on building client trust, balancing multiple responsibilities, and assigning accountability.

Michael and Malorie welcome listener questions for a new “Ask Michael and  Malorie Anything” feature. To submit a question, email Michael.

Featured Guest

Name: Brian Glass | LinkedIn

About: Brian focuses his practice on personal injury and also helps run the firm. He is a thought leader on the topic of building great businesses.   

Company: Ben Glass Law

Connect: LinkedIn | Facebook | Instagram | YouTube | X

Episode Highlights 

[03:23] “I’m Ben Glass’s Son”: For the first 10 years of his career, Brian practiced at a firm that competed with his father’s. In 2019, he joined his father’s firm, Ben Glass Law.

[06:22] “We Stay in Our Lanes”: Ben is the visionary who specializes in long-term disability. Brian is the integrator who makes business decisions on salaries, budgets, and more.

[10:02] Entrepreneurial Operating System: The firm uses an EOS, or Entrepreneurial Operating System. The framework guides the firm in making decisions and assigning accountability.

[18:47] Finding a Rhythm: The firm has a section-wide meeting once a week to go through every single case so that every case is discussed once a month. At a separate meeting, the team discusses the top 20% of cases by estimated value.

[27:37] Great Legal Marketing: In addition to helping run the law firm, Brian helps his father operate Great Legal Marketing, a consulting, coaching, and masterminding company.

[30:36] Word of Mouth: Much of the firm’s marketing focuses on word of mouth rather than digital tools. 

[35:29] “Brian’s Got That”: The firm points callers to frequently asked questions either on its website or YouTube page, such as: “Your lawyer should have this quality.” “You build up this list of questions to which you are always a ‘yes.’ ‘Brian’s got that.’” 

[43:27] Delegate: Brian encourages lawyers and those who run law firms to delegate. “You have to surround yourself with a good team, and you have to be able to delegate the things that really are not needle-movers for you.”

Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation

☑️ Follow us on X, Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn.

☑️ Subscribe to Trial Lawyer Nation on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube.

In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.

Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.

When it came time to name his book, Jason Hennessey left nothing to chance. Anyone searching for “law firm SEO” would find his agency, videos, and his book: “Law Firm SEO.” “I’m dominating that keyword, and it’s all by design.”

With host Michael Cowen, Jason defines words in the digital marketing dictionary like “SEO” and “LSAs.” He pulls back the curtain on the Google algorithm. And he describes strategies to get the phone to ring. His main advice for lawyers is to take action. As an example, he congratulates Michael for his idea to send videos to potential referrals. “And as a result of that, you are able to post those large checks on social media because you’re building these new referral partners. But what if you didn’t take action?”

Michael and Malorie welcome listener questions for a new “Ask Michael and  Malorie Anything” feature. To submit a question, email Michael.

Featured Guest

Name: Jason Hennessey

About: Jason is an entrepreneur, internationally recognized SEO expert, speaker, author, podcast host, and business coach. Click here to order his “Law Firm SEO” book for free.

Company: Hennessey Digital   

Connect: LinkedIn | Facebook | X | Instagram

Episode Highlights 

[03:03] What is SEO? It stands for “Search Engine Optimization,” and it’s not taught in school. Jason began his SEO education while working as a DJ in college.

[05:03] “Law Firm SEO”: Michael wrote this book to empower lawyers so they’re not taken advantage of by a huckster promising to get them on page 1 of Google.

[11:56] The Competition: Google has made it harder for personal injury marketing over the years. While firms could generate leads with advanced SEO strategies, “it’s not as easy anymore,” Jason observes.

[16:39] It’s the Optics: Jason outlines why Google reviews are important: perception, competitive ranking, and keywords.

[19:03] When to Get the Review: Jason argues that a lawyer should seek a client review at the beginning of a case rather than waiting until the case ends.

[20:10] Go Deep or Wide? With a tight marketing budget in a competitive market, a law firm could either limit marketing based on geography or target marketing based on practice area. Jason describes both strategies.

[24:28] ‘To Thine Own Self…” Use stunts to lure social media views if that’s your style. The important thing, Jason says, is to stay true to yourself.

[29:17] The AI Factor: Artificial intelligence allows a marketer to be more efficient, but Google will sniff out content that’s AI-generated and “won’t treat it as favorably” as more unique content, Jason says. And the future could look scary. “I think at some point there could be Michael Cowen and Jason Hennessey on a podcast, and it’s not even us talking!”

[33:26] Looking Ahead: Video and influencers are two tools that Jason expects to become more important.

[36:47] Website Strategies: Once a potential PI client lands on your website, you can keep them with strategies like empathetic writing (rather than a sales pitch) and carefully crafted “thank you” pages after a form submission.

[40:12] Chatbots v. Human Beings: Weighing in on the debate, Jason says that it’s all about the script that the chatbot is following.

Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation

☑️ Follow us on X, Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn.

☑️ Subscribe to Trial Lawyer Nation on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube.

In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.

Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.