Episode

“I think it’s more than just the pinky,” Teana Overton says of her client’s injury from a trip-and-fall. In fact, the pinky bone shattered, requiring surgery and limiting the client’s way of life.

Teana and Drew Gilliland join host Michael Cowen to discuss how they won $1.8 million for the plaintiff. Their behind-the-scenes description of the case highlights how they developed a strong relationship with the client and how they welcomed witness testimony that made her relatable to the jury. They also recall a “scary” moment when the defense motioned for a mistrial. Tune in to learn the twists and turns of the story. 

Featured Guests

Name: Teana Overton

About: Teana is a first-generation college graduate and, more recently, a first-generation law school graduate. An associate at the Nick Schnyder Law Firm, she is a hardworking advocate for clients in underserved and underrepresented communities. 

Company: Nick Schnyder Law Firm

Connect: LinkedIn

Name: Drew Gilliland

About: A senior trial attorney at the Nick Schnyder Law Firm, Drew represents people who have been injured by another’s negligence. He has recovered millions of dollars for his clients since he became a personal injury attorney and is frequently asked to co-counsel on cases with other attorneys.

Company: Nick Schnyder Law Firm

Connect: LinkedIn

Episode Highlights 

[03:29] Nine Years: The case started in 2015, when Drew and Teana’s client tripped and fell on uneven pavement outside a QuikTrip. 

[08:26] Hidden Hazard: The sidewalk’s elevation change was just .44 of an inch, but Georgia code requires that an elevation change of more than a quarter of an inch be beveled.

[12:20] “Grandmother Vibe”: Teana spent time getting to know their client. “I just wanted to know who she was.”

[22:07] Developing Skills: Drew recalls watching “every single trial” that he could and reading all the guide books. 

[23:44] Male-Female Trial Team: How Drew and Teana make their differences work to their advantage at trial.

[33:03] Joyful Stories: Why Teana chose witnesses who told stories about their “joyous” client, before the accident. 

[41:34] Video Glitches: There were 16 cameras, but only the footage showing the client’s fall was corrupted. 

[44:46] Move for Mistrial: When the jury wrote damages with a “K” and liability with “100%,” the defense moved for a mistrial based on “inconsistent verdict.” “That was a scary moment,” Drew recalls.

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In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.

Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.

Host Michael Cowen invites Business Development Manager Abbey Vela to discuss how Cowen Rodriguez Peacock attracts and then keeps referral partners over the long haul. Abbey’s role at the firm is to connect and communicate with referrals; as she explains, it’s a position that “a lot of law firms tend to lack.” Michael observes that any firm interested in building a referral-based practice must be prepared to offer value. “It can’t just be, ‘Come listen to how, what a badass I am and why you should give me your cases.’ No one wants to hear that.”

Finally, Michael and Abbey encourage listeners to attend the firm’s Big Rig Masterclass in Las Vegas on October 16, part of TLU Vegas. Those interested in enrolling can visit Cowen’s Big Rig Masterclass and use the promo code COWEN400 to save $400 off the price of registration.

Featured Guest

Name: Abbey Vela

About: Abbey is the business development manager at Cowen Rodriguez Peacock, where she liaises between the firm’s lawyers and referral partners. She has more than eight years of experience in building and growing businesses. 

Company: Cowen Rodriguez Peacock    

Connect: LinkedIn 

Episode Highlights 

[02:51] The Conduit: As a non-lawyer, Abbey learned the “language” of lawyers to support the firm’s big picture: building and maintaining relationships with referral partners.

[06:16] Communication Styles: From emails to texts to phone calls to in-person meetings, Abbey adapts to referral partners’ preferred communication styles.

[16:12] Building Relationships: The work of generating referrals starts with building relationships. Abbey offers her strategies.

[19:02] In It for the Long Haul: The goal with a referral-based practice is to have a long-term relationship that matures. Michael shares insight about partnering with a firm that, today, co-counsels with his firm on high seven-figure or low eight-figure trucking cases.

[21:28] Celebration Surveys: Abbey conducts “celebration surveys” – asking questions like “What sports do you like?” and “What are your hobbies?” – to connect with referral partners. 

[23:17] Sharing Information The key to getting referrals from other lawyers is providing value, such as sharing actionable information that someone can use in practice. 

Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation

☑️ Follow us on X, Facebook, Instagram & LinkedIn.

☑️ Subscribe to Trial Lawyer Nation on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube.

In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.

Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.

Renowned trucking accident lawyer Joe Fried tried the second case in the nation and the first in Georgia to test Amazon’s claims that it has no responsibility for its drivers’ conduct.

The result was a $16.2 million verdict against Amazon for pain and suffering endured by his client’s son, an 8-year-old boy who was run over by a delivery van. As Joe explains to host Michael Cowen, the groundbreaking case offers unique teaching opportunities for plaintiffs’ lawyers. Among the successful strategies: his team’s focus on exposing how the driver was himself a victim of Amazon, which places drivers under immense pressure. “The jury agreed with us on that in that regard.”

Both Joe and Michael will share their insights about trucking accident law this fall.

First, Joe will discuss the Amazon case at the Academy of Truck Accident Attorneys Annual Symposium, to be held in Nashville from September 25 to 27. 

Then, Joe and Michael will join the faculty at TLU Vegas, October 16-19 at Caesars Palace. Joe will present about the case, and Michael will lead a masterclass on trucking.

Featured Guest

Name: Joe Fried   

About: Joe Fried is one of the original truck accident lawyers in the country and is widely recognized as a top attorney in the field. He is credited with developing many of the best practices used by lawyers nationally in truck accident investigation and truck accident litigation.

Company: Fried Goldberg LLC  

Connect: Facebook | LinkedIn | X | YouTube | Instagram      

Episode Highlights 

[02:13] First in Georgia, Second in Nation: Joe’s unique case focused on whether Amazon should be held responsible for the conduct of drivers who are doing Amazon work.

[05:14] All Profit, No Responsibility: Amazon puts its drivers under pressure to perform, then claims to have no responsibility when problems occur.

[10:19] Joe’s Legal Theory: Amazon failed to train its driver on two things: how to handle children in a residential neighborhood and how to drive the vehicle he had that day: a rental van, not the typical delivery van.

[16:08] Specifics of the Case: The Amazon van struck an 8-year-old boy who was riding an electric bike. The boy suffered a fractured pelvis and a “de-gloving” injury to his leg, which required multiple surgeries, including skin grafts.

[20:36] Mission-Critical: A re-enactment showed that, whichever way the boy was coming toward the van, he was visible – unless packages on the dash blocked the driver’s view.

[31:58] Modern-Day Tenant Farming: Amazon’s delivery service provider owner believed he was an independent businessman. In fact, Amazon had control – like the puppetmaster of a marionette that Joe was prepared to display at trial but didn’t.

[38:29] The Jury’s Conclusion: Amazon held 85% responsibility for negligently training the driver; the driver and his delivery service provider had 10%; and the adult who went inside the house when the incident occurred had 5%.

[1:06] The Future of Trucking Cases: The so-called “relay cases,” which focus on 18-wheelers that deliver for Amazon.

[1:09] View Behind the Curtain: Joe explained the significance of this case to jurors this way: “You have had one of the rare looks behind the curtain at what Jeff Bezos has created.”

Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation

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☑️ Subscribe to Trial Lawyer Nation on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube.

In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.

Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.

Think of focus groups as macro – exposing holes in the case and main issues from the jurors’ perspectives. Think of big data as micro – revealing the win rate, the ask, the possible outcome in terms of money.

In her second visit to Trial Lawyer Nation, Jessica Brylo, owner and lead litigation consultant at Trial Dynamics, outlines the utility of both tools. The conversation with host Michael Cowen dovetails with Jessica’s first appearance on the show, when she shared her insights about how jurors make decisions and how to frame cases persuasively. In this visit, Jessica discusses when and what to expect in hiring a consultant. She also previews her three programs at the upcoming TLU Vegas: lectures on focus groups and case framing and a workshop on case framing, where participants will actually work through a case. 

Email Jessica to learn more about how she can help you.

Featured Guest

Name: Jessica Brylo

About: Jessica Brylo is the owner and lead litigation consultant at Trial Dynamics, a national litigation consulting firm dedicated to plaintiff’s civil and criminal defense cases. She specializes in case framing, jury research, focus groups, mock trials, big data studies, opening statement development, witness preparation, and jury selection. Over the past two decades, Jessica has spoken to thousands of jurors and conducted hundreds of mock trials, the results of which she uses to guide case strategy and framing on cases ranging from soft tissue injuries to nine-figure catastrophic injury cases and multi-billion dollar class-action lawsuits.

Company: Trial Dynamics on Instagram

Connect: Email | LinkedIn

Episode Highlights 

[05:48] Big Data Starts Here: In the beginning, the attorney fills out a template describing the case. That’s sent to 300-some jurors, whose written responses are compiled in an Excel spreadsheet.

[13:31] Big Data v. Focus Groups: They’re two different things. Jury consultants guide lawyers on which tool is the most effective and budget-friendly.

[21:37] Making It Count: A jury consultant’s service to run big data costs money, but spending that money on the frontend often yields results on the backend: illuminating the value of your case. 

[26:03] If You Can’t Do Both: If your budget allows either a focus group or big data, Jessica recommends using a focus group. Here’s why.

[30:51] Mock Trials: There are several methods and uses for this tool, and they can offer advantages in terms of preparing a client who may be nervous or even overconfident.

[35:02] The DIY Challenge: Lawyers who want to do their own focus groups should be prepared to spend lots of “elbow grease” to build an effective, representative database.

Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation

☑️ Follow us on X, Facebook, Instagram & LinkedIn.

☑️ Subscribe to Trial Lawyer Nation on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube.

In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.

Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.

From October 16 to 19, Caesars Palace will be the site of Trial Lawyers University, an in-depth educational opportunity for lawyers who want to sharpen their skills, network, and perhaps – if they’re brave – belt out tunes at a karaoke bar.

Trial Lawyers University founder Dan Ambrose offers a preview of what’s in store at TLU Vegas during this conversation with host Michael Cowen. He explains how he has designed the conference so that participants have training choices that suit their knowledge gaps and goals. “I try to put my heart and soul into it,” Dan says of the rigorous planning. “Just like you put your heart and soul into a trial. Every conference is like my trial.”

Want to attend TLU Vegas? Register here. 

Featured Guest

Name: Dan Ambrose

About: Dan is a Las Vegas-based personal injury attorney who launched Trial Lawyers University during the pandemic. The next conference, TLU Vegas, will be held from October 16 to 19 at Caesars Palace.

Company: Trial Lawyers University

Connect: TLU on X, Facebook, Instagram & LinkedIn

Episode Highlights 

[02:17] An Idea Born in Darkness: Trial Lawyers University evolved during the pandemic, when Dan and a friend discussed how they could give back to the community because “people remember who was there for them in their time of darkness.”

[05:31] Learning How to Win: Lessons learned from an early career as a criminal defense lawyer. Today, Dan’s mission is to help lawyers avoid losing.

[09:10] Emotional State Control: If you say “Good morning” without warmth, your audience’s unconscious detectors buzz. Something’s weird. That’s why Dan teaches lawyers how to be aware of what they’re projecting in the courtroom. 

[12:21] Are You Ready for Your Close-Up?: If you join a TLU boot camp, be prepared to videotape yourself doing presentations. The preparation is critical, as Dan explains.

[19:26] Building a Connection: Dan’s three strategies that lawyers can use to connect with their jury.

[27:38] The TLU Difference: After years of attending conferences, Dan styled TLU to reflect his vision of what makes an effective educational environment. It starts with the exhibit hall. Here’s why.

[28:33] Filling the Knowledge Gap: From lectures to workshops to networking, TLU Vegas is designed to offer enough choices so that anybody can target their gap in knowledge – and fill it.

[32:33] Bringing People Together: How Dan builds time at TLU so that attendees and instructors can learn, have fun, and even refer business.

Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation

☑️ Follow us on X, Facebook, Instagram & LinkedIn.

☑️ Subscribe to Trial Lawyer Nation on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube.

In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.

Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.