166 – Darryl Isaacs – In a World with Millions of Lawyers, You Can Stand Out

Two of the most difficult career paths are running your own business and practicing as a trial lawyer. They both take time, energy, commitment, and exceptional ability in your craft. However, when running your own law firm, you’re tasked with doing both. It can be easy to mismanage the business side or let your abilities as an attorney waiver when one takes control of the other. So how do you balance the two for an exceptional law practice?

In episode 119, Michael Cowen speaks with Sonia Rodriguez, his fellow Partner & Trial Lawyer at Cowen, Rodriguez and Peacock PC about how they run their law firm. On this episode of Trial Lawyer Nation, Michael and Sonia discuss balancing being great lawyers and running a great firm, hiring and coaching decisions, how team building can impact the success of your efforts, taking the right cases at the right time, and much more.

Featured Guest

Name: Sonia Rodriguez

About: Sonia Rodriguez is a native of San Antonio. She graduated from Burbank High School then completed undergraduate studies at the University of North Texas in Denton, Texas. In 1999, Sonia received a Juris Doctorate degree from St. Mary’s University School of Law, in San Antonio, Texas, where she served as an editor and a co-founder of The Scholar: St. Mary’s Law Review on Minority Issues. Since then, Sonia has represented individuals and families who have been injured or have lost loved ones due to the negligence of others. Sonia’s commitment to serving her community through honest and fair legal representation was inspired by her father, a passionate labor organizer and her mother, a hard-working and loyal former paralegal.

Company: Partner And Trial Lawyer, Cowen | Rodriguez | Peacock

Connect: Linkedin

Key Points

Top takeaways from this episode 

• Your law firm is a business. Is it healthy? Reminder that a law firm is a business. It’s important that you periodically gauge where your firm stands on its goals for growth, quality, income, and other goals you may have set to ensure it’s running the way you envision it.
• How to manage your new team members from the business and law sides of the firm. Managing a team is a skill. It’s imperative that you hire team members from both the business and law side of the firm that fit your firm’s culture, quality, and vision. That also means that as the firm grows, your team members may not grow with it whether from their decision or yours. You must communicate the past, present, and future of your firm to your team so that you can all work together as smoothly as possible.
• How to balance running a law firm and practicing law by hiring exceptional team members. You’re not going to enjoy or thrive in every section of running a law firm. The key to balancing the things you enjoy and the things you don’t is hiring exceptional team members to handle things like marketing, advertising, human resources, etc.

Episode Highlights 

[02:19] Evaluate Your Business Health: Keep an eye on what works and what does not in your law firm

[09:15] Creating Systems Of Accountability In Your Business: As you are looking to manage your business health, also gauge your personal and team accountability. 

[13:56] Keeping up with a drastically changing job market: How Michael and Sonia have kept up with their team’s needs with a changing job market.

[26:49] Managing your team, especially with new lawyers: When working with a team, learning to adjust behaviors and expectations is imperative for a healthy team culture.

[38:09] How to balance being an exceptional lawyer with an exceptional law practice: Although your time is eaten up by running a law firm business, there are many methods and practices that you can apply to balance the law firm with practicing law yourself.

[42:24] Best practices for coaching team members: It can be difficult telling a team member you don’t like what they do, but by using radical candor you can help a team member be better for them and for the rest of the team. 

[40:32] Hiring for the things you don’t want to do: One of the keys to balance is to hire a great team to handle the business side of a law firm so you can focus on the practice side.

Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation

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In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.

Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.

When it comes to personal injury law, the client-firm relationship can be fairly transactional. Most clients aren’t talking about their personal injury cases with their network, and lawyers hope that their clients don’t get injured again and become repeat customers.   

But when you have mostly transactional, single-case relationships with clients, how can you gain more business? If your personal injury clients aren’t telling their network about you, who will?

One of the most rewarding methods for gaining more business is referral marketing. Creating longstanding attorney referral relationships gives you a pipeline for more cases, helps you build a reputation, and keeps your firm top of mind in the industry. However, in order to succeed with referral-based marketing, you have to cultivate your relationships and think about what the other person wants. 

According to Michael Cowen and the team at Cowen Rodriguez Peacock, you have to give back in order to grow your referral-based business. Take referring attorneys out to lunch or to an event that they would enjoy. Or, give them a gift that’s personalized (and doesn’t have your firm’s name or logo on it). However you decide to show gratitude to your referral partners, it’s important that you create a system to follow up, check in every now and then, and continue nurturing that relationship.

Above all, Michael says that it’s important to create a culture of sharing and respect and keep your promises with referring attorneys. You don’t have to take every case that comes your way, and you can’t guarantee the outcome of a case. You can, however, promise to work hard, keep clients informed, and honor the deal you made. 

In episode 117, Isabella Santellan, the Marketing Assistant at Cowen Rodriguez Peacock, asks Michael Cowen all of the essential questions about building a referral-based business and tending to referral relationships. Listen to this episode of Trial Lawyer Nation to hear Michael’s advice on building a referral network and nurturing relationships, turning down referral cases, and simplifying the referral process for your firm. 

Featured Guest

Name: Isabella Santellan

About: Isabella Santellan is the Marketing Assistant at Cowen Rodriguez Peacock. She was born and raised in San Antonio, TX and recently received her B.B.A in Management from the University of Texas at San Antonio. As the Marketing Assistant, Isabella runs the firm’s social media, helps plan events, and works to ensure they provide an unforgettable experience to everyone they work with. In her free time, Isabella enjoys traveling, golfing, and spending time with her family.

Company: Cowen Rodriguez Peacock

Connect: LinkedIn

Key Points

Top takeaways from this episode 

• Start with the people you already know (and don’t be too picky about cases). It’s difficult to come out of law school and have the reputation and network needed to create a referral-based business. Michael Cowen suggests you get your foot in the door by being hungry, humble, and persistent. Take cases from those who are already in your network and expand your business from there.   
• Give your referring attorneys what they want. It’s important to stay top of mind when you’re building a referral-based business. How do you do this? Michael says you need to give back to your referral partners. Take your referring attorneys to lunch or to an event that they might enjoy. You could also give them a call, send a handwritten thank you note, or give them a gift (without your firm’s name or logo on it). However you show gratitude, you have to do so with the other person in mind.
• Nurture your existing referrals. When trying to build a referral-based business, many firms make the mistake of moving on to new referrals without nurturing existing partnerships. But the key is to create longstanding relationships with attorney referrals. It’s much harder to convince someone new to send you the first case, and it’s more fruitful to put effort into the connections that are already sending business your way.   

Episode Highlights 

[02:40] The foundation of great attorney referral relationships: The key to establishing great referral relationships is nurturing your connections, setting expectations upfront, and making sure you stay top of mind.

[06:05] The three things a referring lawyer or co-counsel wants: Every referring lawyer or co-counsel wants as much money as possible, as quickly as possible, without client complaints. Michael Cowen breaks down the details of how to achieve this. 

[07:27] How to keep a referring lawyer’s attention: Michael shares Cowen Rodriguez Peacock’s strategies for keeping a referring lawyer’s attention and making sure they choose you over competitors. 

[09:07] Turning down a referral’s case: The number one step to respectfully turn down a referral’s case is to do it swiftly. It’s hard to say no, but it’s better than accepting a case that you’ll later regret. Michael also suggests directing a case to a different firm and offering a possible solution. 

[12:00] What you can and can’t guarantee to a referring lawyer: You can’t guarantee the outcome of a case, but you can promise that you’ll work hard and keep the team informed about the details of a case. 

[13:13] How a new attorney can build their referral network: Start with people you already know. From there, you can build out your network and run your business on referrals. Especially when starting out, you have to get your foot in the door — you can’t be too picky about cases until you build your reputation.

[18:30] Michael’s experience with referrals: Michael shares his advice for working with referring lawyers and developing your referral process. He also talks about the big mistakes he made early in his career and how you can avoid those same mistakes. 

[25:32] Simplifying the referral process: The key to simplifying the process for referring attorneys is to remove the bottlenecks. If you’re busy, put them in contact with someone else on your team who can give them the time and attention they need. For Michael, getting clear on criteria for automatic ‘yeses’ and ‘nos’ can help simplify the process as well.  

[26:51] Other methods to gain referrals: Michael explains how his seminar, Big Rig Boot Camp, and his podcast create a referral funnel and generate more business. 

[30:43] What to do after you win the referral: It can be tempting to constantly look for new referrals, but Michael advises you to spend more time and effort on your existing referral relationships.

Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation

☑️ Follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram & LinkedIn.

☑️ Subscribe to Trial Lawyer Nation on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube.

In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.

Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.

Can lawyers really get cases from their podcasts? Robert Ingalls built a business banking on just that. In this episode of Trial Lawyer Nation, host Michael Cowen welcomes LawPods CEO and Founder (and recovering lawyer) Robert Ingalls to discuss how lawyers are using podcasts to fuel their businesses and personal brands.

Podcasts have the ability to create an immediate connection between the hosts and their audiences. Informal conversations on a podcast give lawyers a unique opportunity to convey emotion and build rapport with their listeners, an area where corporate videos and other promotional materials often fall short.

Tune in to learn how to use your podcast to establish yourself as an authority, nurture leads, boost the size of your network, and turn your podcast into a content marketing machine.

Don’t miss out! Michael’s book, Big Rig Justice: A Comprehensive Guide to Maximizing Value in Truck Accident Cases is now available!

Featured Guest

Name: Robert Ingalls | LinkedIn

About: Robert is a recovering attorney, speaker, and the Founder and CEO of LawPods, one of the first podcast production agencies for law firms. At LawPods, Robert and his team help busy lawyers produce and promote branded podcast content that builds relationships and drives revenue. He’s also a dedicated husband, #GirlDad, and avid longboard skateboarder.

Company: LawPods

Connect: LinkedIn | Facebook | Instagram | Twitter/X 

Episode Highlights 

[02:16] Life before podcasts: Robert began his career as a criminal defense attorney, but it wasn’t long before he was having second thoughts.

[06:45] Go big or go home: Changes in his personal life and career-related mental health challenges sent Robert on a path that led to him listening to his first podcast. Within a month, he owned all the gear and began to launch his first podcast at his law firm.

[10:21] How LawPods helps: Robert discusses the primary ways lawyers leverage podcasting in their firms.

[13:19] Unexpected connections: The unexpected ways podcasts have been beneficial to lawyers personally and professionally.

[18:20] Thought leadership: How firms position themselves as thought leaders by being the first mover–and the first voice people turn to–when relevant legal updates are released.

[23:46] Promoting your podcast: Real examples are successful podcast promotion strategies.

[27:49] To be, or not to be: Monologue format versus conversational.

[33:17] Don’t look for instant ROI: Ultimately, podcasting is content marketing, and it’s unlikely to change your fortune overnight. If you need your marketing dollars to duplicate immediately, Robert recommends you consider other avenues.

[37:40] Always start with the listener in mind: Pick the most effective topics to discuss and clips to promote your podcast by starting with the listener in mind. What pain point is someone listening to your podcast experiencing? That’s what your talk about.

[44:43] Is the market oversaturated?: tl;dr? Not even close. And not when the content is valuable. Podcast consumption is up across every metric, and new podcasts that put the listener first–and do it professionally–are thriving.

Connect with Trial Lawyer Nation

☑️ Follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram & LinkedIn.

☑️ Subscribe to Trial Lawyer Nation on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and YouTube.

In this popular and award-winning podcast for trial lawyers, noteworthy author, sought-after speaker, and renowned trial lawyer, Michael Cowen explores critical topics distinctive to the legal profession with some of the biggest names in the industry – specifically focused on developing extremely efficient law practices, securing a competitive edge in the industry, and wildly excelling in the courtroom.

Produced and Sponsored by LawPods.